Noob Rally Car

Hey all,

So I am new to rally. I have been to a couple of events, and I would really like to get into the sport. I'm trying to decide what I should get for a vehicle. I'm from Boston MA. I have a budget of around $6,000. I need the vehicle to serve as my primary driving vehicle as well (I have a motorcycle as back-up for when I inevitably wreck the car). I'm a decent mechanic, and don't mind doing some work. My brother is a professional mechanic and wants to help me out with this project, but doesn't have a ton of time. So, I guess here are my questions

Make and model

Manual of Automatic

Recommended parts to be swapped out, upgraded, etc.

Tips

Anything else I may be overlooking

Sorry for the Noob questions.

Cheers, Gear

If you really want to get on stage, then you want to buy a rally car that is built already and has a current valid log book. Before you do that, you should spend a stupid amount of time on specialstage.com and rally anarchy reading. Then you should spend a year at least rally crossing and crewing. Then shop for the built car, then rally it for a year and either wreck it or sell it and build one. Deciding which car to build is a long way down the list of things to do.

Rally cross

Or full blown rally

The first I can see, the second I can't fathom doing in something your going to dd.

But I don't know much about rally.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/200x-classifieds/1994-mazda-protege-rally-cross-500/64053/page1/

just saying, for your first one, don't depend on it, don't spend anything on it. If/when you wad it into a ball, you can walk away not caring, and still get to work the next week.

If you are thinking stage rally, don't even think about using your car for DD duty. Most places frown on cars with a complete roll-cage, and stage rally is so tough on cars, you'll be spending the next 2-3 weeks after each rally fixing all the stuff that broke.

Also, I don't think you can realistically built a car on your budget, mostly because of all the safety items and all the parts you'll be breaking. If you still want to give it a try, I would suggest something like this for your first car. It's slow enough that you won't kill yourself when you'll have your first crash, and at that point, you can decide if you want to carry on.

True rally dominance begins and ends with one car: the Chrysler Imperial. Try and get a 1973-77 model; these have the air injection system and always-on A/C compressor that you need to really pursue the checkered flag in earnest.

Stage rally cars are race cars. Think of it as such, It cannot be your DD.

You CAN drive it to an event and back, but if you use it, say, to get to work you will get poor slightly faster than other rallyists...

Isn't it almost required that you start rallying in a VW Golf?

I agree that you'll want to buy a pre-built car.

MKII GTi for the win.

b13990 wrote: True rally dominance begins and ends with one car: the Chrysler Imperial. Try and get a 1973-77 model; these have the air injection system and always-on A/C compressor that you need to really pursue the checkered flag in earnest.

I like you.

If you're serious about pursuing stage rally, buy a built car with a current logbook. But be picky and diligent, you don't want someone else's semi-straightened, previously balled-up, hulk. That said, you'll always have to dump $$ into a used racecar.

Then there's the tow vehicle, spares, travel, entry fees, lodging, etc. 10-years ago, it was $5k for a race weekend. I'd guess it's 20% higher now.

As stated before, there are two routes to go.....and neither (in my suggestion) would be good for alternate-duty as a daily driver regardless.

1. buy a logbooked/built stage rally car. $6k isn't going to get you far with consumables (rally tires, etc) entry fees, and fixing things though. Most guys I know say $20k is a good "low" budget to get into stage rally.

2. if you actually like the "build" part, buy a car you want to eventually rally, and buy it cheap. Spend a couple years building it for rallycross (and running in rallycross) to figure out how things work, what you want to do to it, etc. The cage is going to be your biggest expense, most likely. This gives you seat time to learn the car, set it up the way you want it to be, have fun with it for cheap, and a couple years to save more money to really be able to afford stage rally.

I've probably spent about $6k all told on 2 seasons of rallycross in an e30 that I bought for $1k in the first place. Things like seats, rollbar (not a full cage....yet), make the suspension more substantial, some used rally tires, season entry fees, etc etc. And that is to make a competitive car in Mod RWD class in an area with a fairly good RWD participant field.

And even at that, I wouldn't want to daily drive this car. I drive it to the events and tool around on weekends with it, but rallycross/rally cars get beat up, everything inside is covered in dirt, things break (especially things that you like in a DD like radio, power windows, etc....all of which are removed from mine).....

just my 2 cents. Start with a cheap car for rallycross (a $1-2k e30 or Golf or Civic will be fun and easy) and go from there. Then buy yourself a DD for $3k that you're not going to beat up (old civic, something cheap and reliable)....

irish44j wrote: just my 2 cents. Start with a cheap car for rallycross (a $1-2k e30 or Golf or Civic will be fun and easy) and go from there. Then buy yourself a DD for $3k that you're not going to beat up (old civic, something cheap and reliable)....

Or, you know, Volvo. They seem to do ok for some people...

You know that "stage rally" and "budget of around $6000" don't belong in the same body of text, even if you're talking about installing safety equipment, right? Well if your budget isn't deep into the 5 digits it's tight, consider yourself informed.

Next, the DD & rally car thing...you're making things harder for yourself again. Just making a proper rally car streetable can be impossible in some jurisdictions. Assuming you don't have that problem, you should consider the motorcycle your DD because that rally car will be down ALL the TIME, especially if you're trying to DIY it instead of having mechanics of some sort available to work on the car 24/7 like most of those guys.

And third I'll also say +1 to buying a used rally car rather than building one, it's much cheaper and it's not like it's hard to find a nice one already built.

I'm thinking along the lines of Gameboy. Cheaper rally cars can be done, but cheaply isn't a word often used by rally guys. That thing will likely not be streetable after you're done. Most my cars are cheap, but streetable. My Rallycross car is cheap amd not streetable, but will not pass safety in any club.

GameboyRMH wrote: And third I'll also say +1 to buying a used rally car rather than building one, it's much cheaper and it's not like it's hard to find a nice one already built.

When I bought the MR2 for rallycross, shortly after that I found a local SCCA member selling his VW Bug already set up for stage rally for the exact same $2k I paid for the stock MR2.

petegossett wrote: If you're serious about pursuing stage rally, buy a built car with a current logbook. But be picky and diligent, you don't want someone else's semi-straightened, previously balled-up, hulk.

For $6k, I think that's all you're going to find. You're certainly not going to find last year's hot car that's being traded in simply because the new one is slightly faster. At the bottom end of the spectrum, they're all gonna be sold because it was time for the car to go - and that's never when they're perfect. Just the opposite.

I'd get a $3K DD and budget the rest for a $3K rallycross car (maybe $2K for the car plus $1K for maintenance/mods/tires). Any of the el-cheapo rallycross cars already mentioned would work.

That way, you'll have the most fun, with the least worry. While you're learning on a budget I wouldn't want to bend a subframe on a $6K WRX/whatever.

Jerry wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: And third I'll also say +1 to buying a used rally car rather than building one, it's much cheaper and it's not like it's hard to find a nice one already built.

When I bought the MR2 for rallycross, shortly after that I found a local SCCA member selling his VW Bug already set up for stage rally for the exact same $2k I paid for the stock MR2.

The bug was set up for rallycross, it would take a lot of cash to get it stage ready.

Keith Tanner wrote: For $6k, I think that's all you're going to find.

Not really. There are plenty of used rally cars with minimal prep-work for around that price range. The extent of prep is usually belts, seats, and possibly some cage additions (depending on grandfathering laws and what type of logbook/which organization you get the logbook from). I also strongly disagree with your assertion that all of the cars at the lower end are being sold because of neglect/overuse. Typically, it's more like "hey, I bought an inexpensive rallycar but because I am relatively poor, I was able to buy the car but never able to really afford rallying it". You can actually find amazing deals about once or twice per year on incredible cars. As with any purchase, do your homework, test drive it, inspect it, and then make an offer. Also also, as has been proven time and again (especially in rally) the driver is much more important than the equipment, which is why a lightweight civic with a close ratio box and lsd can run with a $60k Fiesta R2 with a sequential box. The biggest thing is getting out there as cheaply as possible, as you WILL ball your car up eventually if you are serious about learning how to rally.

http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?50913-1990-Open-Class-Talon

A bit over the budget, but you can always negotiate.

http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?48513-FS-1990-Honda-Civic-EF-stage-rally-car

Sold, but you get the idea. Had enough money left over in the budget to get proper-ish suspension.

I wouldn't do a golf. No matter what anyone says, they aren't anymore durable than any other car (in fact, they have a strong tendency to snap stock axles if running a LSD and the electrical/fuel system will always be a nightmare) and they are old as hell. Yes, they are built like tanks, but that is really all they have going for them. Anywhere there is rust, these cars will be impossible to find/get used parts for.

Edit- And as with any racing, it's a process. Focus on getting the car first as safety equipment has expiry dates. By the car, and go over every nook and cranny. Put some elbow grease into it as most problems are fixed with some sweat equity and ingenuity. Wait a year, save up, and by your equipment (and safety gear has never been cheaper, some great and inexpensive equipment out there right now). While some people may "poo poo" the lower end stuff, the fact is, the rules are the rules for a reason and most equipment with the proper ratings will save your arse. I've been there and done that.

Fair enough. I've never actually purchased a used rally car, but have watched the market from time to time as an interested outsider. And generally, I find that used race cars are like project cars - they get sold when their needs outweigh the owner's motivation. Motivation can be time, money or enthusiasm. Very rarely are they put 100% right before being offered for sale.

If you are planning on doing rallying, I have always heard that first you should volunteer to work pits and navigate first before you buy a car.

BobOfTheFuture wrote:

irish44j wrote: just my 2 cents. Start with a cheap car for rallycross (a $1-2k e30 or Golf or Civic will be fun and easy) and go from there. Then buy yourself a DD for $3k that you're not going to beat up (old civic, something cheap and reliable)....

Or, you know, Volvo. They seem to do ok for some people...

I knew someone would say something if I didn't mention a 242. That said, in this area there aren't many 240s available in running shape on CL (I look all the time).

http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/cto/3741756699.html

Great durable car in your price range, sounds ready to rally. Fly out, drive back (depending on what "new subframe" means).