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MrChaos
MrChaos Dork
5/17/19 5:57 p.m.

Mazda still makes new NA/NB hardtops

So I ordered a new OEM Mazda top because I plan to rallycross and they require one and they are thin on the ground here and no matter the condition the price is $1200-1300.

Part #: NCY1-R1-81XB-98 if you can go through Mazda Motorsports the price shipped is $1750. I went through Cox Mazda out of Bradenton, FL and it was $1900 shipped.

Box it comes in is massive. 60x55x22. Had a freind pick it up at the UPS freight dept yesterday and it got rained on.

What it looks like when you take it out of the box.

It is in gelcoat and unpainted. But is has full latches along with headliner and defrost.

 

It even comes with the side trim where the seatbelts are in black precut for the side latches.

MrChaos
MrChaos Dork
5/17/19 6:09 p.m.

Also I currently do not own a miata that this will fit on...

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
5/17/19 6:12 p.m.

If you're planning to rallycross, why did you spend triple for an OEM top vs a TCM fiberglass top? 

It's not like either provides any roll protection, you still need a proper roll bar. 

MrChaos
MrChaos Dork
5/17/19 6:16 p.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

SCCA rules are an OEM hardtop 

or in Modified a hard top that is substantially similar in size/weight(means same weight)  to the OEM top with a roll bar or cage that meets SCCA Hill Climb rules.

A roll bar will be added to any miata i rallycross.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
5/17/19 6:24 p.m.
MrChaos said:

In reply to z31maniac :

SCCA rules are an OEM hardtop 

or in Modified a hard top that is substantially similar in size/weight(means same weight)  to the OEM top with a roll bar or cage that meets SCCA Hill Climb rules.

A roll bar will be added to any miata i rallycross.

Seems from a quick glance around the rules and forums, this is yet another issue the SCCA has bungled (for years). And I read more and more about NASA and mid-season rule changes as well. 

At least WRL and the like are picking up the slack for this idiocy. 

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
5/17/19 6:31 p.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

The rationale is strictly one of doing due diligence and expectations of engineering standards.  An OEM hardtop can be expected to have some semblance of rollover safety.

 

If you check the rules, you will find (somewhat clunkily worded) that any roof structure modification also requires a roll cage that meets a certain spec (Improved Touring, I think).  This for the same reason - you modify the roof, you are going beyond what the OE engineered it to, and you cannot be your own guinea pig.

 

The aftermarket hardtop rule is actually new, either for this year or last year, and it was only allowed because, well, we allow modifying the roof structure on fixed-roof cars.  Before that, it was OE hardtop or watch from the sidelines.

 

disclaimer:  I don't write the rules, that isn't what the Rules Committee does, but I do get to see the pro/cons arguments that get forwarded to the Board.  Rule changes are by and large all submitted by competitors, because it's the competitors who we're doing this for after all.  And, aside, I did recommend approving aftermarket hardtops as long as a cage is used, when the rule change was suggested.

MrChaos
MrChaos Dork
5/17/19 6:36 p.m.
Knurled. said:

The aftermarket hardtop rule is actually new, either for this year or last year, and it was only allowed because, well, we allow modifying the roof structure on fixed-roof cars.  Before that, it was OE hardtop or watch from the sidelines.

IIRC it was approved for the 2019 rulebook.

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
5/17/19 6:40 p.m.
MrChaos said:
Knurled. said:

The aftermarket hardtop rule is actually new, either for this year or last year, and it was only allowed because, well, we allow modifying the roof structure on fixed-roof cars.  Before that, it was OE hardtop or watch from the sidelines.

IIRC it was approved for the 2019 rulebook.

I don't think it was ever answered if one of those $600 Mazda Motorsports hardtops meant for Spec Miata and such counts as "OE".... after all, Mazda did make it.

 

I mean, I'd LOVE to buy an NA to compete with just so I could be the test case, but gosh, NAs have gotten expensive lately.  Must be because Spec Pinata consumed all the good ones the same way that Pro7 and Spec RX-7 hoovered up all of the good 1st-gen RX-7s.  (Mental note:  Next time a wildly popular spec series is built around an inexpensive yet iconic car, lease a warehouse, fill it, and then wait a decade or so.  Good NAs and good FBs are in the $5k and up range now, and nice ones are hitting five digits.  Is there a Spec R50?)

codrus
codrus UberDork
5/17/19 6:58 p.m.
Knurled. said:

I mean, I'd LOVE to buy an NA to compete with just so I could be the test case, but gosh, NAs have gotten expensive lately.  Must be because Spec Pinata consumed all the good ones the same way that Pro7 and Spec RX-7 hoovered up all of the good 1st-gen RX-7s.  (Mental note:  Next time a wildly popular spec series is built around an inexpensive yet iconic car, lease a warehouse, fill it, and then wait a decade or so.  Good NAs and good FBs are in the $5k and up range now, and nice ones are hitting five digits.  Is there a Spec R50?)

Mazda brought 200,000 NA Miatas to the US, even though Spec Miata is one of the most popular roadracing series ever I doubt it exceeds more than a couple percent of the total.  Pretty much all sports cars eventually bottom out on depreciation and start going up, the more they made the longer it takes. 

As for the stock hardtop, I don't think the rule is related to safety.  Stock Miata hardtops don't do squat for rollover protection, they usually get ripped off as soon as the roof touches the ground.  I suspect the rule was (ironically) intended to manage costs, on the assumption that any aftermarket hardtop would be lighter and significantly more expensive than a stock one, and if allowed would become perceived as a "must have" performance booster and drive up participation cost.  Limiting it to stock also means that there's no reason to go test 10 different hardtops on the market looking for the one with the least drag, best downforce, etc.

 

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
5/17/19 7:04 p.m.

In reply to codrus :

The rule is 100% for safety.  If anything, it makes competition more expensive, as to be able to run a Miata you must have a $1200 hardtop.  (Or you have to drive something that isn't a Miata, which puts you at an immediate disadvantage in the RWD classes)  Costs have nothing to do with it, in a series where vehicles are classed based on drive type and prep level and that is it.  And it is very very hard to spend your way to a win because the car itself largely doesn't matter as long as it isn't something huge and scrody.

You're not allowed to run with a sunroof cracked, either.  You're also not allowed to remove a sunroof frame and replace it with sheetmetal (unless you have a rollcage)

spacecadet
spacecadet HalfDork
5/17/19 8:25 p.m.
MrChaos said:

Also I currently do not own a miata that this will fit on...

Thank you for taking the plunge on this. It is nice to know how this process works.

MrChaos
MrChaos Dork
5/17/19 8:59 p.m.

In reply to spacecadet :

i mean it was just like ordering any part from the dealer. IDK about the mazda motorsport part though.

Nate90LX
Nate90LX New Reader
5/18/19 11:08 a.m.

Other than the ease of ordering, is there any advantage to the extra ~$800 for a new top over a used one for $1000? Have all the seals dried out to the point they all have to be replaced?

I heard that Mazdaspeed had no headliner/no defrost hardtop in the $1000 range. Are those still available? 

MrChaos
MrChaos Dork
5/18/19 11:21 a.m.
Nate90LX said:

Other than the ease of ordering, is there any advantage to the extra ~$800 for a new top over a used one for $1000? Have all the seals dried out to the point they all have to be replaced?

I heard that Mazdaspeed had no headliner/no defrost hardtop in the $1000 range. Are those still available? 

Every hard top that has come up for sale around here has been $1200+ and is gone instantly even if they need work/paint. 

The newest full OEM top other than this new run would be what? 13 years old at best?   

Mazda still sells a $600 top with no window/seals/latches that is meant for Spec Miata iirc but it's just like a fiberglass skin. 

Also a full reseal kit for the hardtop is $300 or $500 if you have to do the windshield as well.

Nate90LX
Nate90LX New Reader
5/18/19 11:38 a.m.

Could you make a case that those $600 Spec Miata tops are OEM, since they are sold by Mazda? Wouldn’t that make it legal for rallyx?

noddaz
noddaz SuperDork
5/18/19 12:03 p.m.
MrChaos said:

Also I currently do not own a miata that this will fit on...

Despite what everyone else says I think you really need to find a Miata to go with this top. 

rslifkin
rslifkin UltraDork
5/18/19 12:13 p.m.
Knurled. said:You're not allowed to run with a sunroof cracked, either.  You're also not allowed to remove a sunroof frame and replace it with sheetmetal (unless you have a rollcage)

berkeley.  I've been really wanting to do this on the Jeep.  It would let me run the non-sunroof headliner so I can fit better in the thing with a helmet on and it would pull around 30 lbs out of the top of the thing.  If doing that requires a cage, that's a non-starter.  I'd rather find a non-sunroof shell at that point...

MrChaos
MrChaos Dork
5/18/19 1:28 p.m.
noddaz said:
MrChaos said:

Also I currently do not own a miata that this will fit on...

Despite what everyone else says I think you really need to find a Miata to go with this top. 

Im being picky.  Im looking for a cheap NA8/NB automatic for Paco Motorsports offroadster suspension and boost.

MrChaos
MrChaos Dork
5/18/19 1:29 p.m.
rslifkin said:
Knurled. said:You're not allowed to run with a sunroof cracked, either.  You're also not allowed to remove a sunroof frame and replace it with sheetmetal (unless you have a rollcage)

berkeley.  I've been really wanting to do this on the Jeep.  It would let me run the non-sunroof headliner so I can fit better in the thing with a helmet on and it would pull around 30 lbs out of the top of the thing.  If doing that requires a cage, that's a non-starter.  I'd rather find a non-sunroof shell at that point...

im pretty sure if you change the entire roof skin no one would know. but I know that is only feesable on certain cars.

rustybugkiller
rustybugkiller HalfDork
5/18/19 4:20 p.m.

I think it’s pretty cool that Mazda still offers a new top for a 30 year old car,  perhaps a little expensive but  kudos to them.

rslifkin
rslifkin UltraDork
5/18/19 4:43 p.m.

In reply to MrChaos :

I did have the thought of doing it with a section of roof skin from a non-sunroof version of the same Jeep.  If done right, it shouldn't be visible. 

MrChaos
MrChaos Dork
5/18/19 7:58 p.m.
rustybugkiller said:

I think it’s pretty cool that Mazda still offers a new top for a 30 year old car,  perhaps a little expensive but  kudos to them.

have you priced OEM NC/S2000/MR2 hardtops? its cheap compared to them.

amg_rx7
amg_rx7 SuperDork
5/18/19 8:38 p.m.

Spec Miata requires the oem hardtop 

noddaz
noddaz SuperDork
5/19/19 12:11 p.m.
MrChaos said:
noddaz said:
MrChaos said:

Also I currently do not own a miata that this will fit on...

Despite what everyone else says I think you really need to find a Miata to go with this top. 

Im being picky.  Im looking for a cheap NA8/NB automatic for Paco Motorsports offroadster suspension and boost.

Ahhh, what a TEASE!  A build thread is mandatory.

 

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy UltimaDork
5/19/19 2:17 p.m.
rustybugkiller said:

I think it’s pretty cool that Mazda still offers a new top for a 30 year old car,  perhaps a little expensive but  kudos to them.

If used ones are $1200 I would think the factory is much higher so a new one shipped for that price isn’t too bad.   

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