Tom1200
Tom1200 SuperDork
7/31/21 8:19 p.m.

So a recent column I read from Randy Pobst got me think about this. 

As someone who came from motorcycles, it's common to practice passing lines but I rarely see 4 wheel racers doing this.

In short I practice the passing lines at speed; I started doing this after reading that's what 500cc World Champion Kenny Roberts did.

It made total sense; how do you know what the limit is for a particular line without actually driving it?

 

Karacticus
Karacticus GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/31/21 9:18 p.m.

Some of the BMW CCA HPDEs I've been to do exercises around this-- pairing up cars to swap inside and outside lines from corner to corner, or running the whole track side by side, then swapping on the next lap. 
 

I've found it fun-- while you're certainly not starting out doing this at anything like full speed, at offers an opportunity to drive off the line at increasing speeds. 
 

Other folks complain about it as it's lost track time they could have been "winning" the HPDE. 

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
7/31/21 9:29 p.m.
Karacticus said:

Other folks complain about it as it's lost track time they could have been "winning" the HPDE. 

The slightly less perjorative phrasing is that it's seat time they didn't get to add to their learning of the normal line, the one you drive a lot more often in track days.  Learning to drive the passing line faster is more of a racing technique, and some people aren't interested in pushing beyond track days into wheel-to-wheel competition.

But yes, I've done it at BMWCCA, and I agree that it's useful.  Would be more useful if they would allow non-point-by passing though.

 

Tom1200
Tom1200 SuperDork
7/31/21 9:30 p.m.

In reply to Karacticus :

That's cool, if you're going to drive W2W events it's something one should learn.

I file this with the racers who don't take the time learn what their car handles like on cold tires. 

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/1/21 9:42 a.m.

I do it in practice days when learning a new track.  It can also help if it rains or there is debris on the track.  Sometimes the track looks a little different when entering a corner "offline".

 

I do race w2w, so it makes sense to me.  It probably doesn't make a lot of sense for tt drivers or hpde drivers.  There is the argument that it helps safety by giving you a "safety net" if you end up offline for some reason.

LopRacer
LopRacer Dork
8/1/21 2:02 p.m.

I know our NASA region does a off line drill for the experienced solo drivers (HPDE3) one session a weekend. I have taken part a couple times and found it very useful to spend alternating laps on the "school line" and the off/passing line. People who think it's a waste of track time taken from the "HPDE Championship" usually become the menace of the open passing groups. They tend to have no clue what to do when they get stuck off line during a late pass.  It's harder for me to practice off line outside the reserved drills due to my low horse power/low speed driving style.  Needing to give the point by so regularly  keeps me out of the passing because I am so darn slow.  I will likely never move to wheel to wheel but, I like to get the experience. 

Karacticus
Karacticus GRM+ Memberand Dork
8/1/21 7:26 p.m.
LopRacer said:

I know our NASA region does a off line drill for the experienced solo drivers (HPDE3) one session a weekend. I have taken part a couple times and found it very useful to spend alternating laps on the "school line" and the off/passing line. People who think it's a waste of track time taken from the "HPDE Championship" usually become the menace of the open passing groups. They tend to have no clue what to do when they get stuck off line during a late pass.  It's harder for me to practice off line outside the reserved drills due to my low horse power/low speed driving style.  Needing to give the point by so regularly  keeps me out of the passing because I am so darn slow.  I will likely never move to wheel to wheel but, I like to get the experience. 

Yeah, these HPDE champions make up a large portion of the folks who make a late pass, then whip in front of me to get back to the racing line, then over brake because "E36 M3, I held the throttle longer than usual."

I don't have a problem with a late pass, just hold the inside line through at least the apex, would you?  I'll drop in behind, with a good seat to watch you pull away as we run towards track out. 

adam525i
adam525i GRM+ Memberand Dork
8/1/21 8:35 p.m.

For wheel to wheel sim racing I'll run laps off line to practice defensive and passing lines in iRacing during practice. 
 

I've also done it on the real track with BMW CCA when I've been stuck behind groups of cars not giving point by's. I think that's a sign of an excellent instructor, taking advantage of a situation that isn't ideal and using it to our advantage (we weren't passing them, just coming into the corners off line at speed). I'm sure if the people ahead ever looked in their mirrors they would've wondered what was going on. 
 

 

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