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Lof8
Lof8 GRM+ Member
7/29/08 12:55 p.m.

I live in Gainesville and drive the dedicated roadcourse/testtrack at the Gainesville Raceway from time to time. It kills me that you guys set up cones in the parking lot for the $200X challenge when there is a perfectly good paved road course on the premises. Whats the deal with this? I'll be there to watch either way.

Per Schroeder
Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
7/29/08 1:17 p.m.

The road course is not as indicative of a local autocross as the parking lot. It favors HP much more than handling.

Per

SVreX
SVreX SuperDork
7/29/08 1:17 p.m.

It involves setting up the GRM booth, trailer, scoring equipment etc, in 2 different places. So it is easier for them to stay put.

I agree that I love the road course. The last time they used it was at the $2004 Challenge.

But I understand the difficulty.

And now that Gainesville has that great pavillion near drag strip (which they graciously let us use in the rain, thank you G'ville), last year evidenced that keeping everything in one spot was a really good idea in the case of inclement weather.

I do, however, miss that road course.

Lof8
Lof8 GRM+ Memberand New Reader
7/29/08 1:38 p.m.
Per Schroeder wrote: The road course is not as indicative of a local autocross as the parking lot. It favors HP much more than handling. Per

Well, its time to create a 3rd, intermediate, event then. I'm a road racer at heart.

AutoXR
AutoXR New Reader
7/29/08 1:39 p.m.

Who drives the car at the autocross , a dedicated GRM sourced driver , or a team member..?

Worked on my car all weekend , getting excited!

SVreX
SVreX SuperDork
7/29/08 1:43 p.m.

Your choice.

If you want the fun, you'll drive. If you want to win, or see what your car is really capable of, you'll let one of the champion drivers supplied by GRM take a spin in it.

You get 5 passes. Most of us take a couple of laps, then let the pros take a spin.

John Brown
John Brown GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/29/08 1:44 p.m.

Use the road course for the drift portion of the event, duh!

bluej
bluej Reader
7/29/08 2:53 p.m.
John Brown wrote: Use the road course for the drift portion of the event, duh!

brilliant!!!

has there been discussion of including rally cross as part of the challenge before?

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand New Reader
7/29/08 3:33 p.m.
SVreX wrote: Your choice. If you want the fun, you'll drive. If you want to win, or see what your car is really capable of, you'll let one of the champion drivers supplied by GRM take a spin in it. You get 5 passes. Most of us take a couple of laps, then let the pros take a spin.

No, you don't. See 2004...

E-

John Brown
John Brown GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/29/08 3:41 p.m.

Eric is my favorite Pro ;)

chknhwk
chknhwk New Reader
7/29/08 6:53 p.m.

I'd LOVE to see a roadcourse portion but I understand most on here are cone-dodgers vs. corner-carvers. That's why I'm building two cars. One for the GRM challenge and the other for the UTCC.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua Dork
7/29/08 9:12 p.m.

Oh its a very little road course. It may not be autocross like, but its definitely not a full scale race track.

dyintorace
dyintorace GRM+ Memberand Reader
7/29/08 9:25 p.m.

Having driven it on a few occasions, it is really neither. It was originally designed by the GM of the facility, who taught law enforcement driver training for years in Duval County, Florida. So when he convinced the NHRA to let him build a "road course", he structured it to resemble intersections, etc and included a double skid pad.

See here: http://www.gainesvilleraceway.com/apcm/templates/trackinfo.asp?articleid=1912&zoneid=69

and here: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=gainesville+raceway&ie=UTF8&ll=29.756032,-82.266998&spn=0.00991,0.019226&t=h&z=16

All of which means it isn't really a ton of fun.

fastclown
fastclown New Reader
7/29/08 9:29 p.m.

"It favors HP much more than handling." "See 2004... " Horrible handling was magnified on the road course with the 343. The Alfa proved that it took little talent and HP to win! But then it's a long walk to the bathrooms... OK I get the point.

Lof8
Lof8 GRM+ Memberand New Reader
7/30/08 7:27 a.m.

I guess the only point of view I really have is that of a spectator. Its a lot more fun to watch cars around a paved course where I can see the track edges and the driving lines.

The smaller, tighter autocross on the parking lot probably tests agility a little better, but is NOT as cool to watch.

The $2000 engineering masterpieces are easily the main attraction, but I'd be happy to see them put to use on the "test track."

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/30/08 7:47 a.m.

Yeah you're better off with a parking lot, most of the autocrosses I run are done on tracks, and in order to prevent the cars from simply being stratified by 0-60 times at the end of the day, the course needs to be ridiculously tight. One time the course was relatively wide open, and while it was a lot of fun, if you looked at the standings at the end of the day you'd think they were from drag races.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand New Reader
7/30/08 2:14 p.m.
Lof8 wrote: I guess the only point of view I really have is that of a spectator. Its a lot more fun to watch cars around a paved course where I can see the track edges and the driving lines. The smaller, tighter autocross on the parking lot probably tests agility a little better, but is NOT as cool to watch. The $2000 engineering masterpieces are easily the main attraction, but I'd be happy to see them put to use on the "test track."

From where you are allowed to stand, you can't see most of the track details anyway.

The course was pretty cool- the hard part was to keep raising the rpm limit so that I didn't have to upshift in the middle of the sweeper. Both of the last two runs, my Alfa hit 8000 rpm (ECM rev limiter). From a 5500rpm redline.... I figured if it blew up, so what- it was worth nothing...

I enjoyed the track a lot- got to drive Angry's Corvair (you can see pictures of me driving it in one of the ads in GRM). While I give him a hard time about some of the details, it, too, was a blast to drive around it.

OTOH....

These are $2000 creations. Do you want to corner at about 70mph in one? (think grass only a few feet away...).

I sometimes wish I actually worked on my second Alfa before buying something else and moving on. I think I could have made that thing do pretty well. I KNOW I could make it autocross faster than the Spider did.

Eric

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
7/30/08 4:36 p.m.
alfadriver wrote: I enjoyed the track a lot- got to drive Angry's Corvair (you can see pictures of me driving it in one of the ads in GRM). While I give him a hard time about some of the details, it, too, was a blast to drive around it.

is enshrined within my avatar. look closely, beneath the Alfa Romeo sunshield umbrella. he muscled that ill-mannered pig to 18th place out of 79 cars, and is forever on my list of cool guys because of it. i'm looking forward to his driving and providing feedback on the Porsche 1299 (that's 944 + 355), and i hope it's early enough that i can improve the car before dragging it to florida in ... (consults clock to left) ... sixty two days!?!?!

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt HalfDork
7/31/08 10:43 a.m.

I'm not too sure the road course favored power cars all that much... my Probe did a lot better on the road course than the drags, that's for sure.

Per Schroeder
Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
7/31/08 12:20 p.m.

In the world of autocross, that road course is a power course, no matter how much you cone it down.

in fact, coning it down actually makes it worse.

John Brown
John Brown GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/31/08 12:38 p.m.

We left more oil on the dragstrip than the road course.

I remember the XR stalling when I lifted off the throttle then booming back to life once the engine found ground again and making a corner worker nealy poop (as well as the driver)

Think

WHAAAAAAAbrrrrrrrrr___BAWHOOMWHAAAAAAAAA

wheels777
wheels777 HalfDork
7/31/08 2:13 p.m.

The road coarse is great for a first timer like we were in 2004. I had absolutely no idea what it would take to run an "auto-x". The grass made it very easy to identify the coarse and go out there and run. I probably would do the Gainesville A-x portion if the coarse was easy. Not suggesting that it was a hard coarse the last few years, but, more than I could afford to take the chance on after a long build and long haul with only 5 runs available. Someday I will be more experienced and do my own driving, but coarse complexity or simplicity will dictate if I drive. WIth the road coarse, I would be quick to do it.

I hope Alan and Ian are coming back again this year. They really are a energizing influence on the whole experience in Florida. I know they enjoyed the junk I drag down and I enjoy there willingness to try to get a good run in for us.

poopshovel
poopshovel Dork
7/31/08 2:22 p.m.

To those suggesting that the road-course was more friendly to high-powered cars in '04, our piece of E36 M3 crx had fastest raw time +1 tipped slalom cone. I'm just sayin'.

Lof8
Lof8 GRM+ Memberand New Reader
7/31/08 2:40 p.m.

CRX with the fastest time?

The Road course is better!

poopshovel
poopshovel Dork
7/31/08 2:54 p.m.

Did I mention Mike King was driving? :wink:

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