1 2 3
Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
3/31/16 8:27 a.m.

In reply to STM317:

why do you have to bring logic into this?

STM317
STM317 Reader
3/31/16 8:53 a.m.
Flight Service wrote: In reply to STM317: why do you have to bring logic into this?

I'll see myself out...

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
3/31/16 9:03 a.m.

Actually, the math for the Ecoboost does make sense, especially when you consider you get a brand new engine as part of the bargain. But it won't be a drop-in. Nobody's taken the plunge yet though.

singleslammer
singleslammer UberDork
3/31/16 9:08 a.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner:

I want to but am being told no by SWMBO.... oh well.

Kreb
Kreb UltraDork
3/31/16 9:10 a.m.

It's got to really suck to work up a conversion kit only to have a bunch of guys say how cool it would be to do it another way.

Zomby Woof
Zomby Woof PowerDork
3/31/16 9:23 a.m.

Business as usual for this forum.

Keith Tanner wrote: Actually, the math for the Ecoboost does make sense, especially when you consider you get a brand new engine as part of the bargain. But it won't be a drop-in. Nobody's taken the plunge yet though.

What's the math? How much would the Ecoboost be turnkey?

The ecotec turnkey is $4400 US. My guess is it (Ecoboost) would be roughly double, if not more, by the time it hits the road.

bmw88rider
bmw88rider Dork
3/31/16 9:57 a.m.

In response to Knurled:

I know the turbo motors were really bottled up and respond well to mods. I didn't realize the NA motors were as bad. I'd just be curious what all they did as I didn't see it spelled out anywhere.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
3/31/16 10:01 a.m.
Zomby Woof wrote: Business as usual for this forum.
Keith Tanner wrote: Actually, the math for the Ecoboost does make sense, especially when you consider you get a brand new engine as part of the bargain. But it won't be a drop-in. Nobody's taken the plunge yet though.

What's the math? How much would the Ecoboost be turnkey?

The ecotec turnkey is $4400 US. My guess is it (Ecoboost) would be roughly double, if not more, by the time it hits the road.

Turnkey? As in, you guys are supplying an engine and labor for that price? Impressive. Turbocharged? I really don't know much about Ecotec other than my impressions of the engine when I drove an Atom.

The Ecoboost would be more expensive than that for sure. But again, you'd get a brand new factory turbo engine with a warranty out of the deal.

Zomby Woof
Zomby Woof PowerDork
3/31/16 10:04 a.m.

So what's the math, and how does it work? Not seeing it.

And the more I think about it, the more I think I would be surprised if it were double. Engineered, built and installed, I bet it would be close to triple the cost of the Ecotec

Kreb
Kreb UltraDork
3/31/16 10:09 a.m.

If you go to the swap website, they're advertising a complete installed swap - including labor and miscellaneous parts for about the same amount of money as the Ecoboost crate motor with ecu and harness bought from Jegs. While Ecoboost sounds wonderful, that's an apples and oranges situation.

singleslammer
singleslammer UberDork
3/31/16 10:28 a.m.

Sorry for going off topic.

That is an insane deal and I would totally do this (turn key ecotec) for $4400 plus shipping. That would likely be the best $6k I could spend on a car.

Zomby Woof
Zomby Woof PowerDork
3/31/16 10:33 a.m.
Kreb wrote: If you go to the swap website, they're advertising a complete installed swap - including labor and miscellaneous parts for about the same amount of money as the Ecoboost crate motor with ecu and harness bought from Jegs.

Ecoboost is actually about 25% more than the turnkey swap

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
3/31/16 10:52 a.m.

My comment about the math was in comparison to a turbo kit on an MZR, which is what was being discussed at that point. The Ecoboost brings a new engine with a factory warranty (seriously, this is a factor for some people as opposed to some engine out of a junkyard) and all the turbo components for not far off the price of a turbo kit for that engine.

$4400 for a turn key Ecotec swap is nuts. I'm assuming "turn key" means the same thing here it means everywhere else, as in you drop off your car and when you pick it up it has a different engine. Part of the reason for that low price is the Canadian dollar, of course. Canadians love to bitch about the exchange rate (oh, do they ever) but it's working in their favor here.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
3/31/16 11:18 a.m.
Flight Service wrote: Given the NC and ND stock enginges share the Ecoboost structure and bell housing pattern, wouldn't a Ecoboost store make more sense? Not knocking what they are doing, just asking a buisness decision question.
Kreb wrote: It's got to really suck to work up a conversion kit only to have a bunch of guys say how cool it would be to do it another way.
Zomby Woof wrote: Business as usual for this forum.

People not answering the question asked is business as usual for most forums., just not expected from someone trying to sell a product.

Through all of this, without help from the new vendor, here is what I have come up with on my own.

  1. The Ecotec is much cheaper and although it requires an adaptor can be put in a NON-MZR car with modest costs if using used engines.
  2. The Ecoboost will destroy the MZR gearbox without much effort.

Did I miss anything other than the answer to my other question about the trick brackets being done in house or farmed out?

Kreb
Kreb UltraDork
3/31/16 11:34 a.m.

I wasn't pointing my comment at you, or trying to start a pissing match. I was just expressing a little sympathy for the vendor. No big deal. Btw: here are their published prices:

DIY PARTS FROM $169 COMPLETE KIT $1899 TURN-KEY BUILD $5699

revrico
revrico Reader
3/31/16 11:49 a.m.

I'm actually curious what turnaround time is. Like could I drive up, fish for a couple days, and drive home with the swap? Or deal with international shipping and waiting?

Robbie
Robbie SuperDork
3/31/16 11:56 a.m.

p.s. GM had some factory backed bonneville teams in 2005ish that used an ecotec to push a saturn into the 210 mph range.

The article I remember reading and can't find now basically said they just kept adding boost and fuel to the stock ecotec until they had enough power (like 750hp or so).

Zomby Woof
Zomby Woof PowerDork
3/31/16 4:53 p.m.
Keith Tanner wrote: My comment about the math was in comparison to a turbo kit on an MZR, which is what was being discussed at that point.

I did not see that discussion, and still wonder how the math works.

I have no affiliation with the business, but they are good friends, and they aren't on here, so I just post the odd bit of news. If somebody has questions, they're great guys who, although very busy, are very easy to talk to.

Prices are in Canadian $ which helps the non-Canadian customers, at this point, anyway.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
3/31/16 4:57 p.m.

To see the discussion, see the three or four posts immediately before mine. The context should be quite clear. Anyhow, that's enough of that.

Zomby Woof
Zomby Woof PowerDork
4/1/16 4:24 p.m.

I think maybe one of us is not so good at math

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
4/1/16 4:29 p.m.

I think it's Friday afternoon, and I don't feel like an internet pissing match. Have a good weekend.

Opti
Opti HalfDork
4/1/16 7:17 p.m.

I glanced at the thread but didnt read evrrything.

What is the benefit of an ecotec swal, do they make that much power na? Why would a boosted ecotec be a better choixe than boosting the stock engine?

I like the ecotec but am having trouble coming up with a good reason.

kevlarcorolla
kevlarcorolla HalfDork
4/1/16 7:31 p.m.
Keith Tanner wrote: My comment about the math was in comparison to a turbo kit on an MZR, which is what was being discussed at that point. The Ecoboost brings a new engine with a factory warranty (seriously, this is a factor for some people as opposed to some engine out of a junkyard) and all the turbo components for not far off the price of a turbo kit for that engine. $4400 for a turn key Ecotec swap is nuts. I'm assuming "turn key" means the same thing here it means everywhere else, as in you drop off your car and when you pick it up it has a different engine. Part of the reason for that low price is the Canadian dollar, of course. Canadians love to bitch about the exchange rate (oh, do they ever) but it's working in their favor here.

We can and should bitch about the exchange rate,sure selling something we build to into America is a bonus but it doesn't help us Canadians to buy a Canadian product(notice the $4400 US to nearly 6k cnd difference)and REALLY blows for us trying to buy say a bunch of Miata parts like I've been doing over the winter.

Sadly the 4 wheel big brake kit from FM didn't make it to my garage,the difference in exchange on parts I did buy would of bought that and few other items so yes I think it should be perfectly alright that we bitch about it.

kevlarcorolla
kevlarcorolla HalfDork
4/1/16 7:38 p.m.
Opti wrote: I glanced at the thread but didnt read evrrything. What is the benefit of an ecotec swal, do they make that much power na? Why would a boosted ecotec be a better choixe than boosting the stock engine? I like the ecotec but am having trouble coming up with a good reason.

The BP was designed in the 80's,iron block and not a very good head design that makes very little power and much heat for its weight.

Ecotech means a lighter,cooler running engine making more power than the sc 1.6 in mine.Yes more power can be made going turbo instead but you still have a heavy engine plus additional parts bolted on/in the engine bay to make that power.

At this point in my life I'd prefer a torqey NA engine with minimal things to deal with at the track compared to a boosted Miata engine.

Opti
Opti HalfDork
4/2/16 1:48 p.m.

GM says a fully dressed 2.2 ecotec weighs 320 lbs, so im aaauming all the na ecotecs are similar.

Best i can find is a fully dressed bp weighs about the same.

The 2.2 makes around 140hp and the 2.4 makes around 170 hp.

The 1.8 bp makes between 140 and 142 for vvt according to the wikipedia.

Do the ecotecs make THAT much more poer with bolt on mods? People talk about big gains with ms on a bp, so i always though maybe you could squeeze similar poqer number out of an i/h/e/tune 1.8 bp.

I guess i could see if your swapping to a boosted ecotec, but the bp has such a huge boosted afternarket, because everyone and their uncle has been bolting auperchargers and turbochargers to them for the last 20 years.

Just seems like a lot of work for not much gain.

1 2 3
Our Preferred Partners
ZeYMOs4Ee5LI252KUNQ1t6ZF1ZVQd8oCCeD4DyJHhVMuo7DlpUpcZcaR2RdwaSuo