JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
8/7/19 11:26 a.m.
feature_image

At a recent track day in our Project Z06 at our local track—which happens to be Daytona International Speedway—we had the unique opportunity to run the high-speed high banks in two different configurations in very similar conditions. For one session, we kept all of our aero accessories from AJ Hartman Aero in place, including the swan neck mount rear Fulcrum …

Read the rest of the story

stafford1500
stafford1500 GRM+ Memberand Dork
8/7/19 11:50 a.m.

Whew, I think my job is still safe. Just gotta keep finding efficient downforce to make it fun. Thanks for the descriptions of the effects...

bmxr
bmxr New Reader
8/7/19 12:14 p.m.

Great story. I’d love to see the test repeated at Homestead on the infield configuration where you spend little to no time in overdrive, and at Sebring where extra grip and stability can be really helpful. 

Patientzero
Patientzero Reader
8/7/19 12:55 p.m.

How many laps were done with and without?  Maybe I missed it.

slowbird
slowbird Reader
8/7/19 1:07 p.m.

This is why I like the Daytona roval so much. It's got the big open banks, and also the tricky, flat infield section, that makes low and high downforce configurations both have pros and cons. It's a real balancing act to find the right setup for ultimate pace, both over a lap and over 24 hours. (Speaking not from real-world experience, but from watching the pros do it and some sim-racing time as well.)

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
8/7/19 2:01 p.m.
stafford1500 said:

Whew, I think my job is still safe. Just gotta keep finding efficient downforce to make it fun. Thanks for the descriptions of the effects...

How do we make the wing retract for the oval? 

captainawesome
captainawesome Reader
8/7/19 2:59 p.m.

Is there any tuning to the suspension with the added downforce vs without? I would assume spring rates may need upped, but I know diddly.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/7/19 3:16 p.m.
David S. Wallens said:
stafford1500 said:

Whew, I think my job is still safe. Just gotta keep finding efficient downforce to make it fun. Thanks for the descriptions of the effects...

How do we make the wing retract for the oval? 

Talk to Moti at Blackbird and check out the DRS system he had previously installed on Creampuff?

NickD
NickD PowerDork
8/7/19 3:30 p.m.
z31maniac said:
David S. Wallens said:
stafford1500 said:

Whew, I think my job is still safe. Just gotta keep finding efficient downforce to make it fun. Thanks for the descriptions of the effects...

How do we make the wing retract for the oval? 

Talk to Moti at Blackbird and check out the DRS system he had previously installed on Creampuff?

Or be like Chaparral and make the angle of attack variable with a foot pedal

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
8/7/19 4:11 p.m.
captainawesome said:

Is there any tuning to the suspension with the added downforce vs without? I would assume spring rates may need upped, but I know diddly.

The first time we ran at Daytona with the wing, we pushed the rear fenders down into the tires on the banking. Luckily we caught it before any major damage occurred, but to answer your question, yes you need to take aero loads into account when it comes to spring rates. How much? Well, that could be the subject of a book, but a quick place to start would be with some shock travel tests using zip ties on the shafts. Knowing how far your suspension is traveling under load can ive you a good idea of where to start for adjusting spring rates and bump stops.

frenchyd
frenchyd UberDork
8/7/19 4:45 p.m.

In reply to JG Pasterjak :

Things like this is one of the prime reasons I keep subscribing.  Nice article and very well done! 

BMG905
BMG905 None
8/8/19 8:52 a.m.

Were the Aero loads applied through the bodywork or directly to the chassis?

Would it be possible to mount the Wing element in the rear so that the force was applied directly to the frame?

 

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
8/8/19 1:04 p.m.
BMG905 said:

Were the Aero loads applied through the bodywork or directly to the chassis?

Would it be possible to mount the Wing element in the rear so that the force was applied directly to the frame?

 

Rear bumper beam. It's about the furthest rearward structural member there is on the car, plus the wing is cantileivered behind the swan necks. There's a LOT of leverage. 

Jerry From LA
Jerry From LA SuperDork
8/8/19 2:39 p.m.

I imagine another 200 horsepower would swing the results more towards the aero end with higher top speeds and greater leverage.

deaconblue
deaconblue New Reader
8/9/19 11:09 a.m.

Keep seeing different wheels on this car - are you still using the narrower OEM Z06 rims or are those just older photos? Autocross vs open track setup?

Did you get the oil cooler setup on the car before heading to Daytona, if so how well did it work?

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
8/9/19 12:12 p.m.
Jerry From LA said:

I imagine another 200 horsepower would swing the results more towards the aero end with higher top speeds and greater leverage.

I like the way you think

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
8/9/19 12:16 p.m.
deaconblue said:

Keep seeing different wheels on this car - are you still using the narrower OEM Z06 rims or are those just older photos? Autocross vs open track setup?

Did you get the oil cooler setup on the car before heading to Daytona, if so how well did it work?

The autocross setup is 18x11F and 18x12R Momos with 315/335 Rivals. The track rubber is 315 R1S on 10.5" Z06 rears all around. At some point we'll get another wider set for teh track wheels, but wheels ain't exactly cheap for this car. The lead shot in this story is with the Rivals because we ran a couple sessions in the rain and they were the only thing we had handy with tread on them.

And we haven't gotten the oil cooler mounted yet. Improved has some brackets designed, but they wanted to wait until we got our headers installed to finalize the adapter and hose configurations. The E85 has cut coolant and oil temps by a good 15-20 degrees, though.

deaconblue
deaconblue New Reader
8/9/19 2:42 p.m.
JG Pasterjak said:
deaconblue said:

Keep seeing different wheels on this car - are you still using the narrower OEM Z06 rims or are those just older photos? Autocross vs open track setup?

Did you get the oil cooler setup on the car before heading to Daytona, if so how well did it work?

The autocross setup is 18x11F and 18x12R Momos with 315/335 Rivals. The track rubber is 315 R1S on 10.5" Z06 rears all around. At some point we'll get another wider set for teh track wheels, but wheels ain't exactly cheap for this car. The lead shot in this story is with the Rivals because we ran a couple sessions in the rain and they were the only thing we had handy with tread on them.

And we haven't gotten the oil cooler mounted yet. Improved has some brackets designed, but they wanted to wait until we got our headers installed to finalize the adapter and hose configurations. The E85 has cut coolant and oil temps by a good 15-20 degrees, though.

Wow didn't realize the E85 would make that much difference in the oil and coolant temps out on the track!  I would need to go from 36->46 lbs/hr injectors and swap in an E85 compatible 340 L/hr pump at the power level in my C5 to work with the flex fuel kit.  I really like running the E85 in the wife's 2.0L Turbo Ecotec LHU (factory flex fuel) - it makes a noticeable different with the summer's high heat and humidity

frenchyd
frenchyd UberDork
8/10/19 2:54 a.m.

In reply to JG Pasterjak :

Please may we have some more, SIR! 

How about comparing the same budget spent on various area’s? Brakes, power improvements, handling etc.  

It properly should be on a GRM size  budget, maybe around your Miata?  Then we can each scale it up or down according to our own budget and vehicle.  

Your article on fuel myths  did exactly that.  Scale the results of that to ChevyV8, or whatever motor and you have an idea of how those fuels will personally impact each subscriber.  

My first suggestion would be compression versus flow on cylinder cylinder head porting.  In other words, baseline the engine.  Then increase compression via pistons, Versus ported cylinder head.  

 

 

6pak72
6pak72 New Reader
8/14/19 8:56 a.m.

In reply to JG Pasterjak :

Really love the ComparemyLaps here, and your take-apart. Great driving, great analysis - it’s helping with my aero modelling for an ST-class Miata.

PLEASE get a TPS and BPS trace going - I’d love to see the traces!! 

Robbie
Robbie GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
8/14/19 9:11 a.m.
NickD said:
z31maniac said:
David S. Wallens said:
stafford1500 said:

Whew, I think my job is still safe. Just gotta keep finding efficient downforce to make it fun. Thanks for the descriptions of the effects...

How do we make the wing retract for the oval? 

Talk to Moti at Blackbird and check out the DRS system he had previously installed on Creampuff?

Or be like Chaparral and make the angle of attack variable with a foot pedal

I think the best approach is to make a hole in the cabin near the drivers knee that if covered will direct high speed air into the wing path and stall the wing, therefore reducing drag and downforce. Bonus is that when uncovered it fills the cabin with cool fresh air for the drivers comfort.

frenchyd
frenchyd UberDork
8/14/19 1:10 p.m.

In reply to JG Pasterjak :

Enzo Ferrari; “ Aero is for those who can’t build a powerful engine”. 

Our Preferred Partners
twQZ0enuj8DBVKmqJ3pkuGfJOmcwrId3KVN86OwVi2neujsf1clkkqZzqa3rBYqR