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mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/16/15 2:38 p.m.

I seem to have missed where the fiat x1/9 should be on this list.

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture PowerDork
12/16/15 2:38 p.m.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Seems like there are a fair number of older vehicles that could accept more modern/modified running gear pretty easily: BMW 2002, early 924, Mazda rotaries, RWD Toyotas. Heck, a MGB with a Rover V8 is pretty period correct as well, though introduces a lot of other issues. With a Datsun Z car and some of the Fiat/Alfa stuff there is already a pretty developed aftermarket in place, so that's an option too.

What about something like a 914? Is 150HP a ridiculous figure from one? Or how about an oddball like a Cosworth Vega? It seems like Megasquirt would fix 99% of the problems those have.

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture PowerDork
12/16/15 2:40 p.m.

In reply to mad_machine:

I love the X1/9 and actually had one previously, but it seems like that single cam engine really needs a LOT of coaxing to get into the mid-100's horsepower category. Definitely an option, though.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
12/16/15 2:56 p.m.

If I had the cash, I'd do an RX3 or a 510. This looks like a good option.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/5354941086.html

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
12/16/15 3:02 p.m.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:

Neither of the two are really available in the op's budget anymore, at least not without requiring a lot of work.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
12/16/15 3:02 p.m.

TL;DR. Europa. They can stay up with an Elise on a track, when they are running.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
12/16/15 3:04 p.m.
BoxheadTim wrote: In reply to Fueled by Caffeine: Neither of the two are really available in the op's budget anymore, at least not without requiring a lot of work.

check the link I edited in above.

spitfirebill
spitfirebill PowerDork
12/16/15 3:05 p.m.
pointofdeparture wrote: In reply to mad_machine: I love the X1/9 and actually had one previously, but it seems like that single cam engine really needs a LOT of coaxing to get into the mid-100's horsepower category. Definitely an option, though.

So how easy is it the put a civic engine in one?

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture PowerDork
12/16/15 3:12 p.m.

In reply to spitfirebill:

Not really interested in inter-brand swaps or anything that isn't basically bolt-in. Otherwise the answer to everything in this thread would just be "whatever you can find plus LSJuan..." I'd like to preserve some semblance of originality if possible. It's pretty straightforward to make a 90's BMW M42 look "vintage" and at home in a 2002, I like that kind of thing. But a period engine that can be suitably hopped up (like the Fiat twin cam) is also appealing.

I mean, again, this is basically a bench racing thread anyway, so I guess it doesn't really matter

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture PowerDork
12/16/15 3:14 p.m.
Fueled by Caffeine wrote: If I had the cash, I'd do an RX3 or a 510. This looks like a good option. http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/5354941086.html

That is the kind of thing I would quickly purchase if I was already out there. In my experience it may be hard to find deals like that, but hard and impossible are not the same thing...just gotta be in the market with the cash ready to go when those deals show up the two or three times a year that they do!

Stefan (Not Bruce)
Stefan (Not Bruce) MegaDork
12/16/15 3:19 p.m.
pointofdeparture wrote:
Fueled by Caffeine wrote: If I had the cash, I'd do an RX3 or a 510. This looks like a good option. http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/5354941086.html
That is the kind of thing I would quickly purchase if I was already out there. In my experience it may be hard to find deals like that, but hard and impossible are not the same thing...just gotta be in the market with the cash ready to go when those deals show up the two or three times a year that they do!

They actually show up fairly often out here. More so during the spring/summer. The local enthusiast groups can also yield some hidden gold when you wave cash under their nose.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
12/16/15 3:23 p.m.
Stefan (Not Bruce) wrote:
pointofdeparture wrote:
Fueled by Caffeine wrote: If I had the cash, I'd do an RX3 or a 510. This looks like a good option. http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/5354941086.html
That is the kind of thing I would quickly purchase if I was already out there. In my experience it may be hard to find deals like that, but hard and impossible are not the same thing...just gotta be in the market with the cash ready to go when those deals show up the two or three times a year that they do!
They actually show up fairly often out here. More so during the spring/summer. The local enthusiast groups can also yield some hidden gold when you wave cash under their nose.

I fully agree. It's like 510 wonderland out here.

WOW Really Paul?
WOW Really Paul? MegaDork
12/16/15 3:33 p.m.
Tyler H wrote:
WOW Really Paul? wrote: In reply to Robbie: E21 for a much lower buy in than the 2002 and then stuff a m20 or m42 up front, upgraded brakes, cooling, suspension, & rolling stock. While a m10 car is entertaining, you WILL get lapped the entire day.
I think you will get lapped all day in anything slower than an E36 M3 or a 330i. PoD, you said you were a backmarker in your 330i, and that is what I consider a pretty fast car. There is an emerging need for a vintage HPDE class.

I suppose that depends upon the track, but that also could be the driver as well. I held my own when I took the 318ti to a track day at Road America back in '06, I was keeping pace with the Miata crowd, but we were getting blown by on the straights by v8 powered stuff

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/16/15 3:49 p.m.
pointofdeparture wrote: In reply to mad_machine: I love the X1/9 and actually had one previously, but it seems like that single cam engine really needs a LOT of coaxing to get into the mid-100's horsepower category. Definitely an option, though.

why play with the SOHC when the DOHC cane be made to fit?

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
12/16/15 3:51 p.m.

X 1/9's scare the hell out of me. The window openeings are two small to extract a body out of in a crash situation.

I know a guy who built one for SCCA Pro-Rally(yes, back in the day), it got wrecked and trying to get the guys out of the car was tough. The co drivers helmet got stuck on the way out. It wasn't pretty.

LuxInterior
LuxInterior Reader
12/16/15 4:00 p.m.
pointofdeparture wrote: My thought is that a late 2000cc Bosch fuel injected Fiat twin cam swapped into an earlier car with a few key modifications and/or Megasquirt might be a great foundation and get me most of the way there, but I have no idea if that's really realistic, or if there are other options out there I'm not recognizing...what would you guys suggest?

Would a Miata 1.8 fit under the hood of the Fiat? It would kill the retro vibe, but 140 crank HP is easy. Later you can add more with a snail.

Otherwise I'd try to find a cheap 240Z and look for a 2.8 to drop in. I went for a trackday ride in a 2.8 Z. It was pretty quick. Datsun 510s and 2002s are awesome choices but $$

drdisque
drdisque Reader
12/16/15 4:16 p.m.

Somebody's already built and caged MG Midget, MGB, or Triumph Spitfire - assuming you're willing to deal with a car with a cage (or I guess you could get away with a really big rollbar).

WOW Really Paul?
WOW Really Paul? MegaDork
12/16/15 4:21 p.m.
mad_machine wrote:
pointofdeparture wrote: In reply to mad_machine: I love the X1/9 and actually had one previously, but it seems like that single cam engine really needs a LOT of coaxing to get into the mid-100's horsepower category. Definitely an option, though.
why play with the SOHC when the DOHC cane be made to fit?

Abarth engine.....it's still a SOHC I-4.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
12/16/15 4:26 p.m.

Boom... http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/5362326053.html

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/16/15 4:27 p.m.
LuxInterior wrote:
pointofdeparture wrote: My thought is that a late 2000cc Bosch fuel injected Fiat twin cam swapped into an earlier car with a few key modifications and/or Megasquirt might be a great foundation and get me most of the way there, but I have no idea if that's really realistic, or if there are other options out there I'm not recognizing...what would you guys suggest?
Would a Miata 1.8 fit under the hood of the Fiat? It would kill the retro vibe, but 140 crank HP is easy. Later you can add more with a snail. Otherwise I'd try to find a cheap 240Z and look for a 2.8 to drop in. I went for a trackday ride in a 2.8 Z. It was pretty quick. Datsun 510s and 2002s are awesome choices but $$

You could always try to source the Fiat Turbo's exhaust manifold and build up a nice Intercooled system to fit the spider 2000's engine. Combine it with a nice megasquirt system, and you might have something

tr8todd
tr8todd Dork
12/16/15 4:31 p.m.

So, you want something pre 1980 and you want fast? Here is your recipe. Look for something done, real nice, in the 10 to 12 range. But here's the deal. Find something with a boatload of spares or parts cars. Sell off pieces to bring your cost back down to $6K. For instance, I have a full race BMW 2002. Flared fenders, fiberglass body panels, full cage, fuel cell, accusump, blah blah blah. It has a ton of spares including a close ratio tranny that alone is worth $1500 or more. I'm tired of it. I'm tired of all the room the car and the spares take up. I'd take $10K just to be able to see the back of my garage again. Buyer could sell off parts and easily be under $6K and they would have an insanely fast, insanely cool BMW. Now you and I are probably on different ends of the country, but I'm sure there is stuff like this near you. This time of year there are all kinds of deals. I just bought a mint Range Rover for $1000 because the rich guy that owned it didn't want to deal with an exhaust leak.

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture PowerDork
12/16/15 4:35 p.m.

Really I don't even think the Miata engine has much of an advantage over the Fiat twin cam. More valves, but the Fiat was developed for the better part of 30 years (from the 60's into the late 90's) and so there is a heck of a lot of knowledge on how to make them go fast. Guys are getting 200HP NA out of them but I guess they are not terribly streetable at that point. With forced induction the engine made crazy horsepower in the 037 and Delta Integrale, not sure how the transverse parts fit on but it goes to show the potential is there if you throw the right parts and/or enough dollars at it.

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture PowerDork
12/16/15 4:38 p.m.
Fueled by Caffeine wrote: Boom... http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/5362326053.html

Now that is the "easy button" answer if there ever was one

Is it weird that I'd pull the turbo motor, sell it for a profit, then swap in a NA version?

kb58
kb58 Dork
12/16/15 4:40 p.m.

What seems to fit best is a late 1980's Ford Mustang 5.0 that's already set up as a track car. Any street car with a cage in it's going to be almost free, and the Ford will have TONS of fix up parts cheap.

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture PowerDork
12/16/15 4:47 p.m.
kb58 wrote: What seems to fit best is a late 1980's Ford Mustang 5.0 that's already set up as a track car. Any street car with a cage in it's going to be almost free, and the Ford will have TONS of fix up parts cheap.

How is a late 1980's Mustang pre-1980? Looking for something considered vintage here (if only just).

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