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Bobzilla
Bobzilla PowerDork
4/28/14 1:59 p.m.

What's the latest info on this? Noticed that two of my 225/45/17's have tread splicing. One is pretty large, the other just starting. They had been on the front of the car for Wilmington. 85 runs on them, just now down to the 3/32 wear bars. Keep running them? Contact TR/BFG? or has this been deemed a non-issue?

wbjones
wbjones UltimaDork
4/28/14 2:45 p.m.

if you're down to 3/32's I'd say you're pretty much on your own … can't see them doing much for you with that much wear

Toyman01
Toyman01 GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
4/28/14 2:48 p.m.

Not a problem I've ever had, but this is what Tire Rack says about them.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=160

Interesting read if nothing else.

Petrolburner
Petrolburner New Reader
4/28/14 2:54 p.m.

pics?

Bobzilla
Bobzilla PowerDork
4/28/14 2:54 p.m.

Oh, I'm not expecting free tires in the least. I was just curious how bad they are and how much time I have before replacement. They're no longer on the front axle (driven) and I will keep them on the rears until they are replaced. Unfortunately that means the fronts are going to wear a lot faster and my goal of 150+ runs on this set will likely not hold up.

In reply to Petrolburner:

I didn't take any last night. I can when I get home.

EDIT: I may dial in a little extra camber up front and see if that helps wear on the front end. Unfortunately being a 2800lb FWD car with 63% of it's weight on the nose it's going to be harder on them. I might dial the front up to -3.5 instead of the -3 I have been running this year.

ssswitch
ssswitch Reader
4/28/14 3:13 p.m.

I've heard before that FWD cars are prone to tread splice tearing, even with relatively low power. 85 runs seems quite low though.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla PowerDork
4/28/14 3:19 p.m.

I'm not exactly "low power", but I'm not Z06 levels either. We're putting down ~150-155whp through 225's on a 7.5" wheel while trying to steer, slow and move 2800lbs plus fat-butt driver.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla PowerDork
4/29/14 7:41 a.m.

Pics:

That one isn't too bad, it's only half way across the tread. I ran it on the rear after finding it and it hasn't grown. This one is worse and concerns me a little:

wrongwheeldrive
wrongwheeldrive Reader
4/29/14 1:40 p.m.

The ones on my civic and miata (205 on a 7.5, 225 on a 9) both spliced. It's a non-issue, carry on as normal.

series8217
series8217 Reader
4/30/14 2:46 p.m.

One of the 275/35/18 Rivals on the rear of my Fiero just split at it's splice at the track over the weekend. Only 4 track days on them...

Bobzilla
Bobzilla PowerDork
5/12/14 3:08 p.m.

update on this....went off the Toyman's link when I reinstalled them. The rear's completely disappeared. The one on the front, even though it was on the front was put on so it rotated the opposite direction of the splice. It's no worse than before. So.... I think I'll put it to the rear so it rotates in the direction to help it "mend" and run the previously spliced ones on the front now.

Huh.... who knew it would "fix itself?"

PCalhoun
PCalhoun None
5/13/14 8:27 a.m.

The tread splice is purely cosmetic and does not effect tire performance or longevity.

BFGoodrich continues to strive to offer the highest quality and highest performing tires available to enthusiasts for multiple disciplines of motorsport, including autocrossing, road racing, desert and short course off-road racing. All of which are designed, engineered, and made in America. Supported by SCCA and NASA contingency programs to reward loyalty and performance at Solo National Tours, Pro Solo, Majors club racing and NASA club racing.

Thank you for your support of BFGoodrich Tires.

Peter Calhoun Motorsport Manager BFGoodrich Tires

Bobzilla
Bobzilla PowerDork
5/13/14 8:43 a.m.

Pete!Will and I talked with you at last year's Nat's. These are the same tires that put the SooperKia midpack last year.

Honestly, I am continually amazed at these. Their longevity is amazing for the amount of grip they create. There WILL be another set of BFG's on the Kosei's when these are done.

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/13/14 8:43 a.m.

While you are here, can we talk about the rivals edges chunking and coming apart when driven at crapcan races?

The outside edge seems to chunk or delaminate on the outside edge after about 10 hours of being on track.

Let me see if I can get some pics to show what I am talking about...

Rob R.

P.s. What is a good starting point for HOT pressure on these tires for long distance track work? My pyrometer is telling me about 34 psi hot. However, I am also looking for the longest life out of these tires, not the optimum lap time.

wbjones
wbjones UltimaDork
5/13/14 9:10 a.m.
PCalhoun wrote: The tread splice is purely cosmetic and does not effect tire performance or longevity. BFGoodrich continues to strive to offer the highest quality and highest performing tires available to enthusiasts for multiple disciplines of motorsport, including autocrossing, road racing, desert and short course off-road racing. All of which are designed, engineered, and made in America. Supported by SCCA and NASA contingency programs to reward loyalty and performance at Solo National Tours, Pro Solo, Majors club racing and NASA club racing. Thank you for your support of BFGoodrich Tires. Peter Calhoun Motorsport Manager BFGoodrich Tires

glad to have you on board here … keep us updated for things BFG

PCalhoun
PCalhoun New Reader
5/13/14 3:23 p.m.

The optimum hot pressure is one of many variables not the least of which is car set-up, driving style, and track conditions. As a general guideline for road racing you are going to want mid-high 30's assuming you have an adequate amount of front camber. Autocrossing brings a whole 'nother element w/ the variety of vehicle platforms and set-ups requiring responsive transitions and vehicle rotation on turn-in.

Shoulder wear (it is not delamination) is first a function of the lack of front camber on production based suspension. It is something that we continue to gather intel on to see how it can be improved in future generations of product. For that is one of the primary reasons as a company we race to continually improve our product to maximize performance.

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/14/14 8:14 a.m.

Sorry if I used the wrong terminology. However, it seems different than just wear. It is like blisters on the outer most "wrap" of rubber that then tear off and "chunks" of the tread go with it.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10289886_663763203659230_5553288286294807744_n.jpg

Sorry, I don't yet know how to hotlink (I suck).

Is there a way to minimize this condition? Is it simply camber related? Can tire pressures help alleviate this condition? If so, would higher or lower be better?

Thanks!

Rob Rabenstein

Not So Ninja edit: The above pic is not my tire. However, it is indicative of many of the tires at Chump or Lemons races. It seems the Rivals do this more than any of the other tires. I REALLY like the rivals, and that is all we run (now). I would just like them to last on that outside front tire.

The other tires we used did not have this issue.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla PowerDork
5/14/14 8:15 a.m.

That's a serious lack of camber and over-driving to me.

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/14/14 8:21 a.m.

Is 3 deg static camber on a macstrut car a serious lack of camber?

I am not being sarcastic. Is it lack of camber?

Rob R.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla PowerDork
5/14/14 8:23 a.m.

can be, depending on the wheel rates, and amount of cornering force. I'm runnin -3.5 on the SooperKia for auto-x and I still find it rolling up on the shoulder more than I want. IIRC, the Kinetic fortes were running a little over -4.

wbjones
wbjones UltimaDork
5/14/14 9:22 a.m.
wvumtnbkr wrote: Sorry if I used the wrong terminology. However, it seems different than just wear. It is like blisters on the outer most "wrap" of rubber that then tear off and "chunks" of the tread go with it. https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10289886_663763203659230_5553288286294807744_n.jpg Sorry, I don't yet know how to hotlink (I suck). Is there a way to minimize this condition? Is it simply camber related? Can tire pressures help alleviate this condition? If so, would higher or lower be better? Thanks! Rob Rabenstein Not So Ninja edit: The above pic is not my tire. However, it is indicative of many of the tires at Chump or Lemons races. It seems the Rivals do this more than any of the other tires. I REALLY like the rivals, and that is all we run (now). I would just like them to last on that outside front tire. The other tires we used did not have this issue.

Klayfish
Klayfish SuperDork
5/14/14 11:33 a.m.

We run Rivals on our LeMons cars. One is "the boat", which is a '94 Chevy S-10 with boat body on top, and the other is a '91 Honda Civic hatch. So we've got one FWD and one RWD. Prior to the Civic hatch we ran a Civic Wagovan with AWD, which ran Rivals. I've never seen our tires do what's in the picture above. They have always worn well for us and (knock on wood) we have yet to have any issues with them. I really like them. I notice they get greasy after a few laps when I have open track and can push extra hard, but they cool back down after backing off just a bit.

codrus
codrus GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
5/14/14 12:01 p.m.
wvumtnbkr wrote: Is 3 deg static camber on a macstrut car a serious lack of camber? I am not being sarcastic. Is it lack of camber? Rob R.

I would speculate that it's lack of camber gain. Strut suspensions don't add much camber as the suspension compresses, whereas a double wishbone or multilink can (and usually is) set up to add it. The only way to try to compensate is to add large amounts of static negative camber, but even then it's a challenge, and you wind up with excessive amounts of both inside and outside edge wear.

What kind of car are you running?

codrus
codrus GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
5/14/14 12:03 p.m.
Klayfish wrote: We run Rivals on our LeMons cars. One is "the boat", which is a '94 Chevy S-10 with boat body on top, and the other is a '91 Honda Civic hatch. So we've got one FWD and one RWD. Prior to the Civic hatch we ran a Civic Wagovan with AWD, which ran Rivals. I've never seen our tires do what's in the picture above. They have always worn well for us and (knock on wood) we have yet to have any issues with them. I really like them. I notice they get greasy after a few laps when I have open track and can push extra hard, but they cool back down after backing off just a bit.

The Civic is double wishbone, dunno about the S-10 but it might well be wishbones up front too.

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/14/14 1:39 p.m.

1987 Mazda RX7.

For the record, we only had our tires do this once. However, I see it on at least 5 to 10 cars every race.

I have never had it happen on ZIIs or Z1s or RS2s. Same car, same setup.

How hot is too hot for tire temps?

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