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SK360
SK360 New Reader
5/23/20 10:40 p.m.
ojannen said:

In reply to SK360 :

Where would you class a car that can get software updates that affect performance at any time?  I think the rules committee is trying to avoid an emergency class bump/ban when an update comes out a few days before nationals.


I thought they buried the Model 3 Performance when they moved it to SS.... now they've really destroyed anyone not running a Performance.

So a 283HP RWD Model 3 that cant have the traction control or stability control overridden or even reduced and has received exactly 0 performance based updates that wasn't even competitive in DS should be in SS because "we don't know what can be added?" 
 

Nobody is aluminum foiling a Tesla GPS antenna to make dyno mode work again.  It also disabled the eDiff which is probably why so many people wrecked their cars trying it on the street and why it was nerfed

Dave M (Forum Supporter)
Dave M (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
5/24/20 8:41 a.m.

In reply to SK360 :

The whole thing is dumb, but given that the SCCA member base skews older and richer, and Teslas for many are a political statement, this is probably a smart move for the SCCA.

Realistically, I don't see why they shouldn't have EV-only classes. They already have 10,000 classes, why not 10,002?

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
5/24/20 8:49 a.m.

In reply to Dave M (Forum Supporter) :

Following that line of thought, why would it behoove the SCCA to alienate the people they aren't attracting?  Old rich people is a dwindling demographic after all.

 

Everything I have seen the SCCA trying to do in the past few years is to attract people who don't want to have to spend $5000 a year in tires and buy a new car every other year to stay competitive.  So treadwear limited classing and tuner-open classes, which did explode participation-wise.  So, in THAT light, I can see shoving the cars that people line up to watch because they are so incredible into the highest class, so people in the lower classes don't feel like they have to buy a $50k to win an 89 cent trophy and decide to stay home and boot up iRacing instead.

SK360
SK360 New Reader
5/24/20 8:50 a.m.
Dave M (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to SK360 :

The whole thing is dumb, but given that the SCCA member base skews older and richer, and Teslas for many are a political statement, this is probably a smart move for the SCCA.

Realistically, I don't see why they shouldn't have EV-only classes. They already have 10,000 classes, why not 10,002?

Yeah, I thought they were doing something smart with EV-X... and then they made it prosolo only.  I'm not sure the demographic that's autocrossing Teslas but I'm assuming it's younger people with ample disposable income. 
 

What's going to happen when OBD3 starts getting leveraged and OTA updates are common place?  Everyone to SS!

ojannen
ojannen Reader
5/24/20 10:09 a.m.

In reply to SK360 :

You didn't answer the question.  What class do they go in? What happens if your class changes while you are driving to nationals due to an ota update and now you are in a thu-fri run group?

There would be a better answer if there were more than 2 Tesla's at nationals.  If you can convince 35-40 to show and pray for rain in SS, they will get a street class next year.  For now, the community has spoken and for 60k, they want an M2, SS 1lE, or a Porsche.

SK360
SK360 New Reader
5/24/20 12:00 p.m.
ojannen said:

In reply to SK360 :

You didn't answer the question.  What class do they go in? What happens if your class changes while you are driving to nationals due to an ota update and now you are in a thu-fri run group?

There would be a better answer if there were more than 2 Tesla's at nationals.  If you can convince 35-40 to show and pray for rain in SS, they will get a street class next year.  For now, the community has spoken and for 60k, they want an M2, SS 1lE, or a Porsche.

What question is there to answer, there's what's possible in the real world and there's fantastical what ifs that seems to be what this is based on.  No amount of software is going to make a 3800lbs 283hp RWD Model 3 competitive in SS 

ojannen
ojannen Reader
5/24/20 1:57 p.m.

In reply to SK360 :

If they don't go in SS, where do you propose to put them?  I agree that the rules committee punted but do you have a better option?

Dave M (Forum Supporter)
Dave M (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
5/24/20 5:07 p.m.

In reply to SK360 :

Just wait until the electric 911 is here?

SK360
SK360 New Reader
5/24/20 5:21 p.m.
ojannen said:

In reply to SK360 :

If they don't go in SS, where do you propose to put them?  I agree that the rules committee punted but do you have a better option?

They're not even competitive in DS...  

 

Performance should be SS, regular AWD BS and RWD DS.

dps214
dps214 Reader
5/26/20 8:48 a.m.
SK360 said:

SCCA just moved ALL Model 3's to SS.  Quoting Dyno Mode (which Tesla immediately nerfed so that it doesn't work when GPS detects movement) and Track Mode V2 (which is a Performance only feature which was already SS).  Complete joke and shows how out of touch they are.

There was a funny exchange on another forum where someone pointed out everything you just said and a SAC member replied basically "yeah, that all happened since we decided to move it." You can argue it's a SCCA issue of having too much red tape involved in the classing/rule change process, but the constant software changes and little to no documentation make it impossible to class accurately under the current system.

I will give you that doing this, then announcing EV-X as a compromise, then all but killing it off as a prosolo only class with no actual rules is pretty embarrassing.

SK360
SK360 New Reader
5/26/20 10:25 p.m.
dps214 said:
SK360 said:

SCCA just moved ALL Model 3's to SS.  Quoting Dyno Mode (which Tesla immediately nerfed so that it doesn't work when GPS detects movement) and Track Mode V2 (which is a Performance only feature which was already SS).  Complete joke and shows how out of touch they are.

There was a funny exchange on another forum where someone pointed out everything you just said and a SAC member replied basically "yeah, that all happened since we decided to move it." You can argue it's a SCCA issue of having too much red tape involved in the classing/rule change process, but the constant software changes and little to no documentation make it impossible to class accurately under the current system.

I will give you that doing this, then announcing EV-X as a compromise, then all but killing it off as a prosolo only class with no actual rules is pretty embarrassing.

Sure Track mode was updated for the Performance since they moved it.  I still think it's buried in SS on a national level but I can accept it.  However moving the others which got none of the updates the SAC member was talking about and probably won't since they want to sell Performance models and specifically call out Autocross as bad in the warranty verbiage seemed like an extreme punt.  And yeah the EV-X fiasco is terrible.

 

I think it's all exposing the problems with the current classing system. Vehicles getting OTA updates is going to be more and more commonplace but it's also hard to alter physics once you ship a car.

spacecadet (Forum Supporter)
spacecadet (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
5/26/20 11:02 p.m.

In reply to SK360 :

The "problems" as you see them with the current classing system is by design. 

OTA performance capable updates don't have a place in the current SCCA system because it's built around cars that maintain a performance bar. 

SS is becoming the test bed for what's next in street class. Adjustable e-shocks are already there. 

Leaving the RWD and non performance cars outside of SS was never an option because of the reasons why the SAC bumped the Performance being completely possible on the other trims.

Also to be clear, a MP3 with all the mountain pass parts on it could run in XS-A class at a national tour in lieu of EV-X since that's only being offered at prosolo now.... Since the MPP upper control arms are spherical and not legal for ASP. 

Being pissy about how the SAC has chosen to not destabilize the current classing system for one car doesn't help your case here, anywhere else on the internet, or in the real world. 

The car started discussions on how we as a club will deal with this going forward, which to you point, we will likely continue to see more and more of it. But the system isn't going to change overnight to suit Tesla owners. 

 

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