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dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/4/17 11:55 a.m.

Small displacement higher than "normal" cylinder count motors have always fascinated me. Do they have any potential? Do they take boost? With the small displacement per cylinder do they like to rev?

I know nothing about them other than I have always wanted to get a MX3 (or maybe just the motor) to just to mess around with.

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture PowerDork
2/4/17 12:01 p.m.

There has been some really interesting bench racing done in the past with that motor (K8-DE) due to its supposedly ideal rod ratio. There is also a MSPNP setup that will work for them. However from what I have gathered, everyone that tries to run one hard in the real world ends up repeatedly spinning bearings.

captdownshift
captdownshift GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
2/4/17 12:01 p.m.

They rev, are very smooth and make fun noises. The klze, 2.5L version, likes boost.

Wall-e
Wall-e MegaDork
2/4/17 12:44 p.m.

I had wanted to put one in my Escort but wrecked before it needed an engine.

WildScotsRacing
WildScotsRacing Dork
2/4/17 12:56 p.m.
captdownshift wrote: They rev, are very smooth and make fun noises. The klze, 2.5L version, likes boost.

IIRC, the KLZE is not an especially difficult swap into a BG chassis, if you use the PCM that came with the donor car. Aside from being a little more front heavy, an Escort or Protege with a moderately hopped-up (250hp/200tq is apparently pretty easy to achieve, all below 7000rpm) KLZE ought to be a real uber-sleeper, if you can put enough front tire under it.

flatlander937
flatlander937 HalfDork
2/4/17 1:02 p.m.

The KL-ZE has been swapped into a few Miatas as well. In case you need something to swap it into.

Hintidy hint hint.

captdownshift
captdownshift GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
2/4/17 1:43 p.m.

In reply to WildScotsRacing:

There's some subframe bits that need to be swapped around as well, it's not as easy as a B6 to BP swap, but with a full donor car it can be done.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/4/17 2:18 p.m.
flatlander937 wrote: The KL-ZE has been swapped into a few Miatas as well. In case you need something to swap it into. Hintidy hint hint.

Ohhhh now this would be cool. I bet the shorter motor would open up the space up front a bit. Wonder if it would also help handling.

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
2/4/17 2:50 p.m.

The K8 sounds way better than the KL.

I'd love to put one in something, or just find the last MX-3 V6 that hasn't returned to its ore states or had a 2.5l swap.

penultimeta
penultimeta Reader
2/4/17 6:46 p.m.

I frequently bench build in my head an escort wagon with a boosted Klze with escort GT fairings.

Grizz
Grizz UltraDork
2/5/17 5:01 a.m.

Sounds about like the same reason I want a 6a12 to throw into an old colt.

petegossett
petegossett GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
2/5/17 6:16 a.m.

Isn't this what SF1 built up for the Deathscort, that promptly self-destructed upon initial startup?

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
2/5/17 7:50 a.m.

In reply to penultimeta:

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!

captdownshift
captdownshift GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
2/5/17 8:34 a.m.

In reply to petegossett:

Yes I can't recall if his klze was going for 300hp NA or for 500hp w/boost though.

captdownshift
captdownshift GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
2/5/17 8:35 a.m.

In reply to Grizz:

I want a 4G63 in a colt or expo

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
2/5/17 8:40 a.m.

4G63 in a first Gen Hyundai Excel.King of all sleepers.

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
2/5/17 8:51 a.m.
captdownshift wrote: In reply to petegossett: Yes I can't recall if his klze was going for 300hp NA or for 500hp w/boost though.

That's a KL not a K8. The KL is 2.5l and the K8 is the 1.8l V6 that sounds so good.

WildScotsRacing
WildScotsRacing Dork
2/5/17 8:58 a.m.

In reply to Knurled:

1.8 vs 2.5 = sound fast vs be fast. No replacement for displacement is still true

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
2/5/17 8:59 a.m.

But the 2.5 feels like a truck engine compared to the 1.8.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/5/17 9:49 a.m.

Boost goes a long way in equalizing displacement disparity

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture PowerDork
2/5/17 10:20 a.m.

Regardless of the route you take with the K8 you're going to have to solve some bottom end oiling issues. If you read through the linked thread I posted earlier you'll get to the nitty gritty:

In the mid 90's someone planned and tried using the K8 in a production class autocross car for weight. He made all the measurements, found the bearings dimensions were very similar to the Nascar guys and figured he could scream it to 10k+ rpm. What he found was bearing failure after bearing failure. The motor just can't handle turning too much higher than it's limited to already due to the dynamics of the oil (apparently, it has to do with the crank journal "shearing" the oil film regardless of pressure).
I remember reading up on that in SCCA's tabloid rag. He had a Sprite or Spitfire or something. He was drilling holes all over the block to feed oil into different bearings and inserting pressure probes all over. So, he never got it to work?
I actualy got to meet the guy, which is where he enlightened me about what the outcome was. It's in a Spitfire and he's gone back to running the 2.5. The holes he drilled in the block were actualy for individual pressure taps on the mains. He found no loss in any of the journals and couldn't figure out why he kept wiping bearings. His research pointed to the "shearing." He was realy cool to talk to.
captdownshift
captdownshift GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
2/5/17 10:39 a.m.
Fitzauto
Fitzauto Dork
2/5/17 11:23 a.m.

The idea of a miata with a mazda v6 is tempting.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/5/17 12:48 p.m.
Fitzauto wrote: The idea of a miata with a mazda v6 is tempting.

I have been thinking this as well. My problem is I have never been able to find a way to remove some of the ugly from a Miata especially the early ones. I would need a body kit or at least a replacement nose. I know others will not appreciate this but it is the main reason I have never owned one. They are brilliant mechanically and how they drive and all that but the looks just killes it for me.

This may sound completely nuts but I would like to put a 1.8 V6 from a MX3 into a 944 with either a turbo of some sort or a M45 or an M62 as it would add low-end grunt that would be needed. With the small size of this motor it would seem to me as the perfect motor for the job as it would move the weight back a bit and open up a bunch of space up front in the engine compartment for "stuff" like coolers or turbos Ok a twin turbo 1.8 V6 that goes to say 8k RPM with a very open exaust. . . . Ya I think this would be fun

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/5/17 12:49 p.m.

Since we are talking weird motors here is another one that I will some day have to do.

Take the v6 Mazda KJ-ZEM remove the cam and the supercharger and have a cam made up for normal forced induction. Then add either a normal supercharger or again go with turbo of some sort. Since this motor was designed for boost in the first place and the block is a marvel of engineering. It is a split block design derived from the Mazda racing division that added huge strength to the bottom end. It is way overbuilt for the application. It is oversquare.

You never hear of these failing due to bottom end issues. It is my understanding that the supercharger on these wares out and owners send them on down the line. The other problem is that they really needed synthetic oil for the lifters and this was not originally specced from the factory so there were lifter issues in the early motors that Mazda fixed by mandating synthetic oil in the later cars.

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