Duke wrote: The Volvo has promise but light and cheap to fix are both preferred qualities.
can we go back to the SW2 for a sec...
2600lbs. same basic drivetrain for eleven years.
the more you talk the more I think this could be the ticket.
on the subject of being fun to drive; I have been quite satisfied with their 10/10ths handling qualities. For point of reference, I've spent a lot of time autocrossing an E30 and currently an RX-7 . No expert, but semi-experienced.
For a street car, take an SW2, give it some Eibach springs, KYB GR2 shocks, good tires, and you've got a rather decent handling, fun to drive little wagon. OK, so that just happens to be EXACTLY the same suspension we used on the $2004 Challenge SL2. 
For more giggles, add a stiffer rear sway bar, and/or H&R Sport springs.
Quite reliable, especially one 2000+ as they'd worked out the oil consumption bugs that plagued earlier models, and refined the entire model pretty well. Easy to work on, for the most part. Weight is more like 2400lbs or so, and with the 124hp DOHC motor of the "2" models, it's pretty peppy - 0-60 in about 16.4 stock, high 15s with basic bolt-on mods. And, all S series Saturns autocross in H Stock these days - I think they could do fairly well there.
Bobzilla wrote: What about an Aerio? Ugly as sin....but they were pretty durable. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006-Suzuki-Aerio-SX-Automatic-4-Door-Wagon_W0QQitemZ110360712067QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item19b202d383&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A7%7C39%3A1
And they were available with AWD and Automatic together.
White_and_Nerdy wrote: it's pretty peppy - 0-60 in about 16.4 stock, high 15s with basic bolt-on mods...
wow, that is peppy! 
Being a Ford kind of guy, I did consider the Focus prior to succumbing to another Subaru. A couple problems with the Focus: first, the driving position is just...odd. I didn't care for how the car was set up ergonomically. The other thing was build quality. Having replaced a window regulator in my neighbor's wagon, I couldn't believe what a completely awful, cheap, cost engineered piece of crap the regulator was. Having owned a couple VW/Audi products, I did not really want to perform regular regulator replacements as part of regular services. It also did not speak well of the rest of the car. My only "cheap" gripe on Subarus is the carpet (which is a step up from cardboard with flocking glued to it). Being that my selection was my wife's car and I didn't want to hear about it hardly ever, the Focus was a worry. Other than zapping out the P0420 code from the OBD-II on bi-monthly occasions the Forester is pretty much a car I can ignore.
Autolex wrote:alex wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think AWD and manual transmission were mutually exclusive. If that's not true, it will change my mind about those cars in a big way.ahh, it does appear that you are right... "All wheel drive was also available from 2003-2006 when coupled to the 1ZZ engine and automatic transmission, but was dropped at the same time as the XRS." - Cited from wikipedia... nevermind on that then...
Well that's fine... he's looking for an Auto.
White_and_Nerdy wrote: Weight is more like 2400lbs or so, and with the 124hp DOHC motor of the "2" models, it's pretty peppy - 0-60 in about 16.4 stock, high 15s with basic bolt-on mods. And, all S series Saturns autocross in H Stock these days - I think they could do fairly well there.
I'm assuming you meant 0-1320 in the high 15s, not 0-60... I hope. A trap speed of 60 mph would suck! I'll look for an SW2, but within 200 miles of me here, all I've located are LW3s.
alex, thanks very much for the primer on the Focus call letters. That helps a lot.
So far what is floating my boat is another Impreza wagon (probably a bugeye or blobeye) with the Forester on STi-takeoffs being a close second.
However, I'm going to go try a Protege5 I saw at lunch today. I hope it's an ATX so I can see how the 2-litre deals with it. Thanks to J-man for your vouching on the P5. For the same price, I can find a 90,000-mile Impreza/Forester or a 60k P5.
Thanks to everybody for the input!
I'll admit to bias upfront, but how about an e46 BMW wagon? I love mine.
Wow, that's a lot closer to the budget than I would have thought. I'll look around, but owning an E46 myself, I'd be worried about the auto transmission at that age, and it likely needs all new underpinnings. I do love the E46Ts, though.
The e46 prices are plummeting! That's the good news. But I'd agree with you that at 120k, it's going to need freshening.
I do love my car though. 
Jensenman wrote: P5 durability is stellar! I'd like to have one myself but it won't tow a race car. The Protege in all its various forms and the Miata are the toughest cars that Mazda has ever built.
agreed. can't say enough good things about either protege i've owned.
My 2k3 Pro has injested intake screws. Twice.
Dealer says it isn't a problem. 
Look into that, but for the rest my car has been decent. New wheel bearings all-round at 60k miles, and sway bar end-links seem to be a regular replacement item.
I HATE the 2.0, since it seems like a thrashy, slow to rev little 4....but it does seem to last a while. YMMV. My wife has actually forgotten we own a protege (seriously) since it sits parked for long periods of time while she drives the (admittedly worse on fuel, 14 year older) E30 that she adores.
Nathan
Following this thread with interest. My Passat wagon needs to go and I want something nice to replace it. I looked into the SW2 myself, but after owning an SC1 and seeing how it crumbled in a wreck, I tossed that idea.
The e46 models haunt me so, but the fear of expensive parts only available from the motherland scares me. But they look SO nice....
The Forester has been on my short list for a while. A turbo model ideally, or an H6. But I miss driving a luxury car so I'm not sure if I'd be happy with it.
RossD wrote: A Golf or Jetta Wagon? Do I even attempt to say < whispers > Passat Wagon < / whispers >. A4 wagon too.
My wife's B5 Passat wagon is a great car. There are issues but overall, handling, comfort, it's a great car. The upper ball joints are an issue and a private sale with oil change records are required. 4k intervals are a requirement on the 1.8t.
It will roll in a corner to a point, then takes a set and rotates very well. Totally stock too.
slefain wrote: The e46 models haunt me so, but the fear of expensive parts only available from the motherland scares me. But they look SO nice....
The parts really aren't that bad. Much of the car is DIY approachable too. I bought mine with ~50k miles on it and now have ~85k. It's required zero parts other than wear items (brake pads/rotors - done in my garage; tires, fluid changes, etc). I did just replace the rear trailing arm bushings today and chose to add the trailing arm limiters from Turner, but that was mainly to preserve my impending new tires.
Having said that, I am going to slowly start replacing some cooling system items that have been known to fail. I consider that preventative, as I hope to keep the car another ~50k miles.
Why are you buying a car that costs any significant amount of money for a 17 year old...it will be crashed! I second the saturn SW...but go with the SW1, cuz it gets over 40 mpg and they handle remarkably well.
dyintorace wrote: The e46 prices are plummeting! That's the good news.
That, sir, depends on your perspective. If you already own one, it is most definitely not good news...... 
Trust me...I own one too! 
Just another vote, I own a P5 (~2 years, from 30-60k miles) and have had nothing but routine maintenance.
I actually got it because it was easier to find a manual P5 than an Impreza with one.
I've been very happy with the hauling capability (esp w/ roof racks), and it at least pretends to be peppy on my commute.
The A/C isn't the world's coldest.
Same here. i had a Pro ES (which was the sedan version of the P5) from new-55,000 miles. only issue was worn out motor mounts from lots of autoXing.
njansenv wrote: I HATE the 2.0, since it seems like a thrashy, slow to rev little 4....but it does seem to last a while. YMMV.
the car could certainly stand a nicer, revvier engine...it's certainly a great chassis in search of an equivalently nice powerplant. but for real-world use, it's not a bad unit; makes decent low/mid-range torque that probably works better w/ an auto than a stick.
the rest of the car is good enough IMO to overcome the engine's deficiencies. the brakes are especially wonderful.
maroon92 wrote: Why are you buying a car that costs any significant amount of money for a 17 year old...it will be crashed!
Because she's done that already. I figure now she's got it mostly out of her system. Besides, the first one was half due to circumstance, not thoughtless driving.
I just drive a 94k 2003 P5 with a 5-speed. The car did seem to be put together well and was clean and straight. I now know what everybody says about the engine. It is very thrashy and buzzy - the shifter vibrates more than my old ACR Neon with Boogerbushings and filled motormounts did! The engine got the job done even with the AC on, but it was not a pleasant little mill to hear. If it didn't idle smooth as glass and sound fine with the hood open I'd have thought there was something wrong with it.
The car seemed nice but at 95k it's going to need a timing belt within the year and the struts were mighty soft. This was an obviously well-cared-for example, though. Dealer put new brakes and 2 new Dunlops on it. Original asking was $8995 which was ludicrous but it's just been dropped to $6995 asking. Dunno what it would move for.
Duke wrote:maroon92 wrote: Why are you buying a car that costs any significant amount of money for a 17 year old...it will be crashed!Because she's done that already. I figure now she's got it mostly out of her system. Besides, the first one was half due to circumstance, not thoughtless driving.
Bahahahahahahahahaha.
A teenage girl wrecks her car right away, and you think it's out of her system? Boy, you sure are a...."trusting" father. Unfortunately, insurance statistics beg to differ, and of course price appropriately.
Bryce
Almost as bad as teenage boys...
Duke wrote: Almost as bad as teenage boys...
Exactly. If some other father told you his 17 year old kid wrecked their car, and then said they're buying a nicer car because now it's out of their system...what would your response be? I couldn't help but laugh. Like I said, you're far more trusting than me. How about this policy:
First one's free. You have to pay after that.
Bryce
I've wondered about the Outback Sport from the mid-late 90's. Someone in this thread said something about not being able to lower these cars, is there any truth to that? I really like the look of the Outback Sport and it seems like they're the most common way to get this generation of Imprezza in a wagon, but I'd want to up the handling using off the shelf parts; I assumed I could just use parts meant for, say, the 2.5RS. What's the likelihood of finding one with a manual trans?
You'll need to log in to post.
