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z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/19/21 8:53 a.m.
BoxheadTim said:
mdshaw said:

1. Because for less than 1/2 the $$, if you can turn a wrench you can get a nice used one with a blown motor & turbo K swap it & be much, much faster, better, cooler, more reliable than the new one. But this takes commitment, savings & lots of effort so most just hit the easy payment button. 

This is a bit too close to "wrench shaming" in my book. Plus, the monetary calculation (half the money) is only correct if your time is worth less than zero. You rightly point out the commitment necessary, which is probably more than it takes to keep a Biturbo running.

Not all of us want to design a car from first principles on Saturday so we can drive to work on Monday.

4. Buying any new car is way stupid, with payments even more, unless you are in a great financial position & lots of cash.

Wording might need a little work. It's the OPs money, so implicitly calling the OP "stupid" for doing what he/she wants with their money is a) a bit off and b) unnecessary.

And as someone else already pointed out, it's hard to have used cars if no new cars are being bought.

I suspect mdshaw doesn't know I've done things like that before. Like swapping an OBD-I S52 into my '88 325is.............12 years ago. 240hp/240tq in an E30 with Wilwoods, Ground Control coilovers, and sticky tires was fun. Or the multiple brake/suspension setups I tried on my track rat miata and multiple engine changes. 

And no, I don't want to spend that kind of time in the garage anymore. 

Snrub
Snrub Dork
8/19/21 10:21 a.m.

If you liked it before, I'm sure you'll enjoy a new, improved version.

Part of me wonders if the new generation will be enough of an improvement over the old one. I think the biggest problem was the character of the engine. This reviewer owns a first gen model so they should be well positioned to make a comparison.

"It feels far livelier throughout the rev-range, resolving one of the key complaints from the last generation models, which is that it felt slow and required constant monitoring and gear changes to extract the most performance out of it. It worked for some but was an instant turn-off for others. This new engine is the right solution to the problem. It pulls strongly to redline through each gear, without the peakiness and unrefined habits that defined the last model." https://driving.ca/reviews/first-drive/first-drive-2022-toyota-gr-86

I still think they should have opted for the turbo 3 from the GR Yaris.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/19/21 10:32 a.m.

In reply to Snrub :

All of the driving reviews I've seen since the embargo was lifted (Matt Farah, EverydayDriver, Sarah-n-Tuned) seemed to be very impressed with the new car, with the first two explicitly calling out how much of an improved the FA24 is over the FA20.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/19/21 10:44 a.m.

My only problem with buying a new fun car right now, is that if I had the capacity to spend that money on a fun car, I'd be really hard pressed to buy anything other than an NSX. 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1991-acura-nsx-136/

 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/19/21 11:00 a.m.
BoxheadTim said:

In reply to Snrub :

All of the driving reviews I've seen since the embargo was lifted (Matt Farah, EverydayDriver, Sarah-n-Tuned) seemed to be very impressed with the new car, with the first two explicitly calling out how much of an improved the FA24 is over the FA20.

The Z has made this tough, even though it's not really fair to compare them since the Performance Trim Z will likely be ~$45k vs $31k for the BRZ Limited. 

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/19/21 11:01 a.m.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

Dang, that was cheap even with those miles.

Fupdiggity (Forum Supporter)
Fupdiggity (Forum Supporter) Reader
8/19/21 1:00 p.m.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaR843im04A

Jason Cammisa gives the new one two thumbs up as well. 

mdshaw
mdshaw Reader
8/19/21 11:54 p.m.

Sorry about coming across too harsh. I just have many friends that have had car payments their entire lives & it adds up drastically.  Also my wife, son & I just recovered from this corona-delta & pneumonia.  I've been more outspoken about things since.  I guess days of feeling like one is going to die can change some views on things. 
Short story time. One friend I have. We worked in the semiconductor industry for many years. He was always buying new Chevy pickups, a family car for his wife & he he always drove a Corvette, all on payments or leased. He has 2 kids & his wife has always worked. My wife & I have 3 kids, the youngest is disabled so my wife has never worked outside the home. I always bought old Honda's or diesel trucks with cash, kept them or flipped them after using them. My friend & I worked 12 shifts 3 days on, the 4 days off then switch the next week. He is actually a good wrenched also. He could never afford another house after they walked away in 08, I tried to tell him it would come back, also the "new cars" & Corvette club was a huge deal - him & his wife had the jackets also. Rent was short term cheaper so they did that & still do. Anyway advance 33 years of my wife & I flipping cars & houses, a few boats & a diesel motorhome (still have). We are retired in Florida at 53 years old. 
My friend still with new Chevy's & waiting for the C8 last year, declared bankruptcy again, could barely afford rent the last we talked last year.  I know there were probably other factors, I know though there were no drugs or major alcohol involved. 
It's too dang hot & humid here so as I'm recovering, I guess I read & post to pass the time.
Again sorry if I offended anyone.

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter)
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
8/20/21 5:10 a.m.

3 new cars (leased or bought) every 2-3 years can be a crazy drain. A bit different than one new car every decade or two. I am personally itching to get my wife something new instead of fighting a 15 year old Honda on it's 3rd or 4th set of motormounts coolThere can be better ways to spend time/money if you have it, use it to work for you.

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
8/20/21 7:38 a.m.
maschinenbau said:

I'm in the same boat as you. Don't need a new car, but really kinda want a fun new car. I also feel this is the last period of time in history when we'll be able to choose between 2 cheap, manual, 4-cylinder, N/A, non-hybrid, non-electrified, sub-3000 lb sports cars. So if not now, then when?

Since posting this comment, I pulled the trigger and bought a new Miata. First new car purchase, possibly even my last. I really, really love it and I think you'll feel the same about the BRZ. This is the end of an era for sports cars. Not the end of sports cars, and not the end of cool cars in general, but they'll never come out with new ones like this ever again. Get yours and I'll race you. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/20/21 7:51 a.m.

In reply to mdshaw :

No worries, different people have different priorities. I haven't purchased a new car in 7 years. In fact, I don't even have a car right now!

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/20/21 7:53 a.m.
maschinenbau said:
maschinenbau said:

I'm in the same boat as you. Don't need a new car, but really kinda want a fun new car. I also feel this is the last period of time in history when we'll be able to choose between 2 cheap, manual, 4-cylinder, N/A, non-hybrid, non-electrified, sub-3000 lb sports cars. So if not now, then when?

Since posting this comment, I pulled the trigger and bought a new Miata. First new car purchase, possibly even my last. I really, really love it and I think you'll feel the same about the BRZ. This is the end of an era for sports cars. Not the end of sports cars, and not the end of cool cars in general, but they'll never come out with new ones like this ever again. Get yours and I'll race you. 

I'll know for sure once more details on the Z are released. 

If the Performance trim is super heavy and/or approaching $50k, BRZ or GR86 it will be. I'm leaning back toward the GR86 because I really like the Neptune Blue. Looks like the blue on the Focus RS and Mustangs. 

mdshaw
mdshaw Reader
8/20/21 8:15 a.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

No car, that's bad. 

roninsoldier83
roninsoldier83 GRM+ Memberand Reader
8/20/21 8:21 a.m.

I like the new GR86/BRZ, but I can come up with several reasons to avoid buying one right now. 

I'll point out that I'm 37 years old and have owned 31 cars. I know these are amateur numbers compared to some of the heavy hitters on this board. With that said, of the last 6 cars I bought and sold, I sold 4 of them for more money than I paid for them (anywhere from $1500 to $3000 more), the other 2 I broke even on. The only way I've managed to support my massive addition/automotive ADHD is by buying them right, which frequently involves a fly-and-drive scenario. To say my wife is supportive is an understatement, she's probably closer to an enabler. I can't speak to what your situation is. 

What I can say is the biggest reason to avoid buying a brand new car is the massive depreciation hit you would be taking in the event it's not what you're looking for. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. A couple years into the production of the BRZ/FR-S, it wasn't hard to find brand new cars that were being sold for under in-voice... which meant the folks that bought them for MSRP (or above...) took massive depreciation hits. Fortunately, the resale on the twins has always been relatively strong compared to most cars, but a hit is still a hit. Waiting a while can save you thousands. 

It's been mentioned above, but there's also early adopter problems to contend with... which, it's a brand new car, still under warranty, so I'm sure that's something you can look past if you love the car enough, but it's still something to consider. 

Probably the biggest reason I would say to avoid this course of action is that you haven't driven it. All the reviews have raved about it, saying it's wonderful. I've driven hundreds of cars in my life and read even more reviews. I don't know how many times a particular reviewer loved a car (or seemingly all of them), only for me to drive it and disagree with them. It's all subjective, right? The last time I bought a car without driving it was a Civic Type R... all the reviews say it's wonderful and does everything well! I got a smoking deal on it (under MSRP- I had to fly across the country to find this deal...)... that car was a blast to drive! It was everything the reviewers said it was... there was only 1 problem: it caused me a massive amount of pain in my right knee and hip if I drove it for more than just a few minutes at a time. I adjusted the seat a thousand times, I adjusted the pedals, I even tweaked the lower bolsters/seat frame, in search of relief from the pain while driving... I managed to mitigate it slightly, but it never went away. I ended up selling the car, as it physically caused me pain to drive, which led to me not driving it much. I didn't lose a dime on that car, thankfully, but only because I shopped around and took a flight. My point being: the car was great. But the car wasn't great for me- more of an alignment problem with me. Honda made a great product, I would highly recommend the car... but I'm not going to pay that much money for something that physically causes me pain to drive. If I had been able to test drive one (there were none that anyone was willing to let me drive in my area), I would have been able to feel the pain/discomfort within minutes and would have avoided the hassle to buy the thing. 

As such, I would say to drive the car before being sold on it. If you drive it and you don't love it, don't bother. 

I would also ask: are you looking back on your old BRZ with nostalgia? Or did you truly love the car? If you truly loved the car, why did you really sell it? I'm not trying to be a jerk here... but I know from my own experience, there are a few cars I've owned that I looked back on with rose colored glasses, only to find that when I drove them again, they weren't as good as I remembered them. Have you considered at least driving another BRZ/FR-S in your area, to see if it was really as great as you remember it? 

I've made the mistake of buying the same car more than once. Only to sell it again, in short order for the exact same reasons I sold the first one for. The only exception being the AP2 Honda S2000. I sold my first one purely for financial reasons. I loved that car. A few years later, I bought another one - a 2008 laguna blue AP2! I've now had that car for years and frequently say that you'll have to pry the keys out of my cold, dead hands. Barring a major financial crisis, I don't ever intend to let this car go again (especially with prices getting so ridiculous!). Every other car I sold and thought I wanted back, 90% of them weren't as good as I remembered them being. 

Buying cars, especially new cars, is frequently an emotional decision. No amount of logic can make you stop wanting it once you've made up your mind. I can probably say the same thing about a long list of women I dated when I was younger. No one can tell you how to spend your hard-earned cash. Do what you want, brother! 

With that said, from one car-junkie to another, I would make sure you absolutely love the car before going all-in. And when you do go all-in, buy the thing right, just in case. But I've owned 31 cars, I clearly have a problem... I might not be the guy to listen to in any capacity. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/20/21 8:59 a.m.
mdshaw said:

In reply to z31maniac :

No car, that's bad. 

We both work from home permanently, so it's not a big deal to share one car. I sold the NC almost 6 months ago and it's never been an issue. Gave me the spare cash to build my ridiculous sim rig and is now giving me the money to save up to put a nice downpayment and/or mods for whatever car once I get it. 

When I had first gen BRZ, I had coilovers, wheels, and a tune on it in less than 1000 miles of ownership. devil

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/20/21 9:10 a.m.
roninsoldier83 said:

I like the new GR86/BRZ, but I can come up with several reasons to avoid buying one right now. 

I'll point out that I'm 37 years old and have owned 31 cars. I know these are amateur numbers compared to some of the heavy hitters on this board. With that said, of the last 6 cars I bought and sold, I sold 4 of them for more money than I paid for them (anywhere from $1500 to $3000 more), the other 2 I broke even on. The only way I've managed to support my massive addition/automotive ADHD is by buying them right, which frequently involves a fly-and-drive scenario. To say my wife is supportive is an understatement, she's probably closer to an enabler. I can't speak to what your situation is. 

What I can say is the biggest reason to avoid buying a brand new car is the massive depreciation hit you would be taking in the event it's not what you're looking for. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. A couple years into the production of the BRZ/FR-S, it wasn't hard to find brand new cars that were being sold for under in-voice... which meant the folks that bought them for MSRP (or above...) took massive depreciation hits. Fortunately, the resale on the twins has always been relatively strong compared to most cars, but a hit is still a hit. Waiting a while can save you thousands. 

It's been mentioned above, but there's also early adopter problems to contend with... which, it's a brand new car, still under warranty, so I'm sure that's something you can look past if you love the car enough, but it's still something to consider. 

Probably the biggest reason I would say to avoid this course of action is that you haven't driven it. All the reviews have raved about it, saying it's wonderful. I've driven hundreds of cars in my life and read even more reviews. I don't know how many times a particular reviewer loved a car (or seemingly all of them), only for me to drive it and disagree with them. It's all subjective, right? The last time I bought a car without driving it was a Civic Type R... all the reviews say it's wonderful and does everything well! I got a smoking deal on it (under MSRP- I had to fly across the country to find this deal...)... that car was a blast to drive! It was everything the reviewers said it was... there was only 1 problem: it caused me a massive amount of pain in my right knee and hip if I drove it for more than just a few minutes at a time. I adjusted the seat a thousand times, I adjusted the pedals, I even tweaked the lower bolsters/seat frame, in search of relief from the pain while driving... I managed to mitigate it slightly, but it never went away. I ended up selling the car, as it physically caused me pain to drive, which led to me not driving it much. I didn't lose a dime on that car, thankfully, but only because I shopped around and took a flight. My point being: the car was great. But the car wasn't great for me- more of an alignment problem with me. Honda made a great product, I would highly recommend the car... but I'm not going to pay that much money for something that physically causes me pain to drive. If I had been able to test drive one (there were none that anyone was willing to let me drive in my area), I would have been able to feel the pain/discomfort within minutes and would have avoided the hassle to buy the thing. 

As such, I would say to drive the car before being sold on it. If you drive it and you don't love it, don't bother. 

I would also ask: are you looking back on your old BRZ with nostalgia? Or did you truly love the car? If you truly loved the car, why did you really sell it? I'm not trying to be a jerk here... but I know from my own experience, there are a few cars I've owned that I looked back on with rose colored glasses, only to find that when I drove them again, they weren't as good as I remembered them. Have you considered at least driving another BRZ/FR-S in your area, to see if it was really as great as you remember it? 

I've made the mistake of buying the same car more than once. Only to sell it again, in short order for the exact same reasons I sold the first one for. The only exception being the AP2 Honda S2000. I sold my first one purely for financial reasons. I loved that car. A few years later, I bought another one - a 2008 laguna blue AP2! I've now had that car for years and frequently say that you'll have to pry the keys out of my cold, dead hands. Barring a major financial crisis, I don't ever intend to let this car go again (especially with prices getting so ridiculous!). Every other car I sold and thought I wanted back, 90% of them weren't as good as I remembered them being. 

Buying cars, especially new cars, is frequently an emotional decision. No amount of logic can make you stop wanting it once you've made up your mind. I can probably say the same thing about a long list of women I dated when I was younger. No one can tell you how to spend your hard-earned cash. Do what you want, brother! 

With that said, from one car-junkie to another, I would make sure you absolutely love the car before going all-in. And when you do go all-in, buy the thing right, just in case. But I've owned 31 cars, I clearly have a problem... I might not be the guy to listen to in any capacity. 

I'll definitely drive one before signing the dotted line. Whether it's a BRZ, Z, Supra, etc. I was really interested in the Focus RS when it came out, but no dealers would allow test drives unless you had already signed all the paperwork. 

I miss the BRZ because it fit me perfectly and it was a blast. I ruined it with a track suspension setup and never got around to tracking it. IE solid mounts, camber plates, etc. It made it loud and crash over everything, but was a hoot in the corners. 

I traded it for a 135i, because I thought I wanted something a bit more grown up. 

mdshaw
mdshaw Reader
8/20/21 10:26 a.m.

Or maybe just a good used car to tide you over until the 400Z is available for a test drive.  
My wife was still upset at me for convincing her to sell her Audi allroad when we left Idaho. Following my life long strategy, I found a really nice 04 TSX with skipped timing. Skipped timing on a high mileage K is very common. The teeth on the tensioner teeth wear down then on cold startup it skips. After starting, the oil pressure takes over. Anyway got it for $1400 plus it has a full Mugen spring strut & shock suspension. So basically got the car for free,  a jdm $750 200hp RBB K24A, new timing chain set, jdm $250 auto trans, new wheel bearings & brakes, TL sway bars. For @$3k my wife has a very nice, very fun great handling car. I've read where a lot of auto "writers & experts" feel the TSX was the last Acura for drivers & had the Integra soul. Deals are out out there.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/20/21 10:35 a.m.
mdshaw said:

Or maybe just a good used car to tide you over until the 400Z is available for a test drive.  
My wife was still upset at me for convincing her to sell her Audi allroad when we left Idaho. Following my life long strategy, I found a really nice 04 TSX with skipped timing. Skipped timing on a high mileage K is very common. The teeth on the tensioner teeth wear down then on cold startup it skips. After starting, the oil pressure takes over. Anyway got it for $1400 plus it has a full Mugen spring strut & shock suspension. So basically got the car for free,  a jdm $750 200hp RBB K24A, new timing chain set, jdm $250 auto trans, new wheel bearings & brakes, TL sway bars. For @$3k my wife has a very nice, very fun great handling car. I've read where a lot of auto "writers & experts" feel the TSX was the last Acura for drivers & had the Integra soul. Deals are out out there.

Nah, even if it's a deal, I don't see the point in buying a car just to buy one. Don't need one. 

mdshaw
mdshaw Reader
8/20/21 3:31 p.m.

Was just saying to have a car if needed & wait for the 400Z, then just sell it. Even though you both work from home, still need a car, no? I guess depends where you live. Not having a car that I could jump in & go any time would be stressful for me. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/20/21 3:39 p.m.
mdshaw said:

Was just saying to have a car if needed & wait for the 400Z, then just sell it. Even though you both work from home, still need a car, no? I guess depends where you live. Not having a car that I could jump in & go any time would be stressful for me. 

That's the thing. We haven't run into an issue in nearly 6 months of sharing a car. 

The most stressful thing about not having a car is deciding what I'm going to buy next. smiley

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