So now we know - Never try to make a Camry into a race car

I wanna play, I'll get a stratus. 8)

Hey now, just because you found a double wishbone, fully independent, FWD, light family sedan with a massively upgradeable drivetrain doesnt mean anyone's going to take you seriously! ITS A DODGE AFTER ALL.

This thread has taken an interesting turn; use the $20xx Challenge rules, only now it's the $5000 DD Challenge. Eh? EH?

I like.

Unfortunately, the downside is that nobody is actually going to do it because nobody wants to spend $5k on a grocery sedan on this forum.

Yeah, to be honest if i was going to dump a whole 5k into one of my sedans the first 2k would be making it fast and handle and the next 3k would have to be on something else like nice paint and wheels. It doesn't exactly take 5k to make an old FWD family sedan haul ass if you're good at the game. Unfortunately GRM Camry gives the exact opposite impression.

Swank Force One wrote: I like. Unfortunately, the downside is that nobody is actually going to do it because nobody wants to spend $5k on a grocery sedan on this forum.

Build it and challenge car it? That will give Bob an excuse to keep whatever crappy korean thing he has now.

Oh and: http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/3989621814.html

In reply to Vigo:

No, see, they could add categories. Comfort. Interior sound levels. How well does the A/C work. Stuff like that.

I'm talking about building the best 4+ door thing to do the daily slog to the office, get groceries on the way, maybe a kid if you've got one. But it's still quick and fun to drive, maybe even nice for some cone action on the weekends (I don't race and that last part feels fake but you get the idea).

Swank Force One wrote: I like. Unfortunately, the downside is that nobody is actually going to do it because nobody wants to spend $5k on a grocery sedan on this forum.

I did about almost a decade ago. I'd guesstimate I put $5k into it over 4-5 years (including wheels)

And apparently with the Maxima model that everyone here doesn't like for some reason, since everyone says "I love the 95-99 and 02-03 Maxima!"

moparman76_69 wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: I like. Unfortunately, the downside is that nobody is actually going to do it because nobody wants to spend $5k on a grocery sedan on this forum.

Build it and challenge car it? That will give Bob an excuse to keep whatever crappy korean thing he has now. Oh and: http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/3989621814.html

Meh, my Challenge car is set for the next decade.

And that car will probably raw time his fancy new korean race car.

Swank Force One wrote: And that car will probably raw time his fancy new korean race car.

Even with the broken engine? For arguments sake I did find two more in that price range that ran, one was a 2.4 car already.

I meant my Challenge car for the next few years lol.

I like the early Stratuses for some reason.

Both statements are most likely true.

Speaking of family sedans, my wife gave me permission to blow up her 98 cutlass in spectacular fashion when she gets a new car. 3100 v6. I plan on either 100 shot or bolting on a 3800SC intake/blower. What sucks is that there is more aftermarket suspension available for that car than any of my stuff.

Vigo wrote:

I wanna play, I'll get a stratus. 8)

Hey now, just because you found a double wishbone, fully independent, FWD, light family sedan with a massively upgradeable drivetrain doesnt mean anyone's going to take you seriously! ITS A DODGE AFTER ALL.

Totally forgot about these. For the lower budget, Stratus would probably be a better bet than the Accord due to the ease of making big power.

And apparently with the Maxima model that everyone here doesn't like for some reason, since everyone says "I love the 95-99 and 02-03 Maxima!"

Well, it basically comes down to the fact that until pretty recently (when prices for 5th gens are not much higher than 4th gens) you were paying more to get a car that was heavier but didnt make any more power until the last ~700 rpms. So it didn't make sense to pick up an 00-01 if you just wanted to go fast. Made more sense to get a 95-99 and put an 00-01 intake on it.

Also i think there are quite a few people for whom the looks of the 00-03 never caught on, myself included. I only like them in very specific color/trim combos.

This idea has real merit. We'd all love to have a dedicated fun/competition car but financially/logistically it often doesn't happen. And we'd all like to have something enjoyable for the 98% of our driving in the DD grind. So there is real editorial prospects here.

How about an exhibition class at the next $20XX? $5,000 cap, FWD, four doors. Add a fourth judging category for an evaluation of DD functionality, like A/C, radio, comfort and convenience. That means not stripping the interior. Change the weighting to reflect the DD aspect, like 40% DD functionality, 20% drag, 20% autocross, 20% concours. Bonus points for evidence that the car was driven all the way to the competition, not trailered. Bonus points if you demonstrate a rear-facing child seat fits without compromising front-seat space. Competition not restricted to sedans so bring minivans or Mazda 5 or whatever. No bonus points for "themes" because you're not going to want to drive a "theme" as your DD.

Don't overthink it because we don't need another rulebook just to settle this. Accept that the DD functionality will be subjective judging, just like the concours. More bonus points if you have a strong build summary that GRM can turn into an article.

Hopefully GRM can get enough material to document three or four viable options for real people to have fun with their DD car.

David

Hmm. Neat idea. This would meet all the DD requirements and then some (it will easily swallow more than the trunk of a family sedan mentioned in this thread, and it gets way better mileage), and have $3K left to make it quicker in a straight line...

irish44j wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: I like. Unfortunately, the downside is that nobody is actually going to do it because nobody wants to spend $5k on a grocery sedan on this forum.

I did about almost a decade ago. I'd guesstimate I put $5k into it over 4-5 years (including wheels) And apparently with the Maxima model that everyone here doesn't like for some reason, since everyone says "I love the 95-99 and 02-03 Maxima!"

It's not that the 00-01's are bad cars, it's just that compared to the 4th gen and 5.5 gen they have the most problems. I've spent 5 years between a Nissan dealer and an Infiniti dealer, and 00-01 Max's and I30's are the ones that eat coil packs, catalytic converters, IAC valves & ECUs, and the old timers have said that the plastic manifolds used to crack all the time and create vacuum leaks too. They are also the most "complicated" under the hood out of the 3 versions mentioned here. That being said, it doesn't mean I wouldn't take an 00-01 SE, pull off those cats and replace with headers & a nice Y-pipe, and flog the poo out of it. They've got plenty of power, and they are still a Maxima after all. I have just seen first hand that they are the worst out of the 95-03 Maximas. Of course, YMMV.

Oh, and might I also add that the above picture is awesome...2 black FWD Nissans from the same angle tearing up the auto-x course!

I am personally AGAINST the 5k family car thing at the challenge because when it comes down to it, there are still enough people willing to put a ridiculous amount of skilled labor into a $2k car and make it look like a gem that frankly it's a turnoff for me to look at the cars that end up winning the challenges in a lot of cases.. I have a problem where i cant TOTALLY disregard the worth of my skilled labor and i really dont want to compete against $20-30k builds (when labor is counted) in a $2000 challenge that doesnt pay to win. I dont have enough local friends to divide that between, so it would be me putting half a year of work i could have made a lot of money off of into a car that i honestly feel doesnt justify that level of investment. If you move that up to 5k and people like that move into that class you're going to get stratospheric results that will have absolutely no relevance to any low-buck DD i ever intend to build. It doesn't take 5k to build a fast FWD family sedan in the first place, so a 5k cap is just going to let people who are bad at the game waste more money not winning, and the people who are good at it go totally overkill and convince the losers not to come back.

How about a $1000 budget for FWD 4 door sedans where speed is the only factor? Get rid of the concours and only do autocross and drag race. And they have to be driven to the event.

I'll have about $5K into SF1Killer by spring....

... and it probably won't be enough/done.

I also like the early Stratus(Strati? Stratuses?). I like Maxima's, too, but the whole rear suspension thing when they did the redesign in '95 or whenever turns me off. I like the style of Camry that GRM built. 2GR's and VQ's are pretty awesome engines. I just can't stand Toyota electronics, and every Nissan I look at pisses me off after working on my friend's Z32 TT. I'd rather own a 626/Mazda 6 before either of those cars. Accords are easily the most well thought out/sorted, fun, direct, attainable of the bunch in a 5-speed. Sure they may be slower than the rest, but Honda put some sort of sushimagic into the Accords with manual transmissions. The F-series engine is epically good and under-rated. Every single one I've driven has been a hoot to drive, even my current DD with blown up shocks and the worlds crappiest all-seasons.

In reply to beans:

Yuck, I understand your pain with a Z32 TT. Believe me, not all Nissans suck to work on like those. They are in a league of their own. And 4th gen Max's are pretty easy to find in 5 speed.

My Z32 was 10x easier to work on than my girlfriends B14 Sentra.

ProDarwin wrote: My Z32 was 10x easier to work on than my girlfriends B14 Sentra.

Really?! You are definitely in the minority on that one.

I think I just found a good one for the 5K challenge. It's an '05 Altima SE-R, 6 speed manual, 105K miles, with an asking price of $4980, for sale near Miami.

Z32TTs aren't hard to work on. Just time consuming. I wouldn't call it difficult.