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Ed Higginbotham
Ed Higginbotham Associate Editor
12/23/15 9:30 a.m.

Hi guys, So Rick just spoke with the Martin Sports Car Club guys (the fine people who run the autocross portion of the Challenge) and they expressed some discomfort with the whole minivan class, specifically in the autocross. So we need to make sure that all entries abide by the SCCA's Rollover Potential Guidelines. You can find them on page 31 of this document. An easy way to determine the legality of your entry is using the graph below.

I looked up the dimensions of a stock '99 Odyssey and while it doesn't pass in stock form, some lowering and wider wheels make it acceptable. Sorry if this makes things more difficult for some, but in this day and age we can't really afford to throw safety guidelines out the window.

stafford1500
stafford1500 Reader
12/23/15 9:52 a.m.

Would it be allowed to build and determine the Static Stability Factor (SSF) listed with the above chart and present that as 'proof' of conforming to the rules for entry?
Since many of the entries will likely start life out of range, the modifications and subsequent verification may provide a way to make MSCC feel better about the vehicles. Of course the rules list the SSF calculation only for NEW vehicles, but many of the competitors are one-offs and that may help sway the powers-that-be.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Associate Editor
12/23/15 10:00 a.m.

Yes, absolutely. Just don't be too surprised if one of the club's members walks over to your van with a tape measure to confirm.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua UltimaDork
12/23/15 10:51 a.m.

Great News-we have a ruling!

Ranger50
Ranger50 PowerDork
12/23/15 12:28 p.m.

Wonder if I can chop the top off and make it all work????

patgizz
patgizz PowerDork
12/23/15 12:38 p.m.

for the rendezvous/aztek, i figured 3" drop, 4" track increase with wheel width or offset change, and removing the roof rails would get down into the white part of the chart. roof rails add an inch to the total height.

i do not think i'll be bringing a minivan class entrant, however i have thought long and hard about it. simply sticking rwd offset rims on would add quite a bit of track width.

glad it's finally officially ruled on. i could see rick's hair falling out or turning white on site if someone rolled a minivan on course.

pimpm3
pimpm3 Dork
12/24/15 12:54 a.m.

A ruling at last. Outstanding! Work will resume on my entry after the holidays.

GTXVette
GTXVette Reader
12/24/15 7:55 a.m.

too bad a ringer from Joey Chitwood never made the trip.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UberDork
12/24/15 9:09 a.m.
Ed Higginbotham wrote: wider wheels

Track is center to center of wheels. Wider wheels without a change in offset do not impact track and do not reduce rollover risk per the chart posted above. Offset is the important part here... you need to move the wheel centers outward.

Section 12 of Rules said: track The distance between the centerlines of the wheels as competed without driver, measured as follows: From centerline to centerline of wheels. Alternatively, it may be measured from the inside of one wheel at the hub centerline height to the outside of the other wheel, then conversely from the outside of the first wheel at hub centerline to the inside of the second wheel. The two dimensions obtained are to be added together and divided by two (2) to obtain the average. Measurements are to be taken at both front and rear of the wheels and averaged to compensate for toe in/out. Wheel rim width shall be measured at the base of the bead seat.
ssswitch
ssswitch HalfDork
12/24/15 9:47 a.m.

All I'm hearing is that you're going to be seeing a lot of fast minivans with box flares.

Which is awesome.

physician
physician New Reader
12/24/15 10:12 a.m.

It will be a slammed, choptop, widebody fest. Kind of a challenge Group B.

I have a challenge itch for a mid engined v8 previa 1st gen right now.....

Average track: 61.4 Oem height: 70in

Looks likt it need aproximatly 4 inch drop and 4.5 inch wider... :D Smaller tires can deop height quickly too.

patgizz
patgizz PowerDork
12/24/15 10:37 a.m.

what's the FMV of a wrecked 05 rendezvous with bent frame, possible bad engine that i posted here for $125 and nobody bought, and i posted on CL for $600 and nobody bought and one person bothered looking at? scrap is 3 cents per pound right now, giving it a scrap value today of $122.80 for a curb weight of 4,098#.

dyintorace
dyintorace UberDork
12/24/15 11:03 a.m.
patgizz wrote: what's the FMV of a wrecked 05 rendezvous with bent frame, possible bad engine that i posted here for $125 and nobody bought, and i posted on CL for $600 and nobody bought and one person bothered looking at? scrap is 3 cents per pound right now, giving it a scrap value today of $122.80 for a curb weight of 4,098#.

Sounds like $122.80 to me!

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 MegaDork
12/24/15 12:20 p.m.

I Googled up keyphrase 'Stance Minivan'.
Some things I expected but others brought amazing inspiration.

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 MegaDork
12/24/15 1:08 p.m.

I've got something in mind that, at stock is
71.9" tall
67.3" track
A 4.5“ deficit

I figure drop via cut springs 2.5" then add 1" in spacer or offset to both sides.
Seems easy. Is that correct?

Also, it mentions average track. Does that mean the average of the front track and the rear track?
In my example above could I add 2" of track on each side of just the rear axle while leaving the front axle stock and still achieve the formula?

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UberDork
12/24/15 1:18 p.m.

Yes, it means (Front Track + Rear Track) / 2

And yes, it is that easy. Like posted above, a shorter tire will help you drop the height quickly as well.

Billy_Bottle_Caps
Billy_Bottle_Caps Dork
12/24/15 1:38 p.m.
ProDarwin wrote: Yes, it means (Front Track + Rear Track) / 2 And yes, it is that easy. Like posted above, a shorter tire will help you drop the height quickly as well.

I never thought of that

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
12/24/15 1:48 p.m.
patgizz wrote: what's the FMV of a wrecked 05 rendezvous with bent frame, possible bad engine that i posted here for $125 and nobody bought, and i posted on CL for $600 and nobody bought and one person bothered looking at? scrap is 3 cents per pound right now, giving it a scrap value today of $122.80 for a curb weight of 4,098#.

You have a Rendezvous with some frontal damage and a probable bad drivetrain.

You also have a tube frame chassis that needs a body.

Also, I thought that engine had sold.

patgizz
patgizz PowerDork
12/24/15 1:56 p.m.

had another engine from another wrecked rendezvous, and that's still here. belongs to my dad from the one my mom rolled a couple winters ago. i wanted to verify engine condition in the 05 but the wiring is crushed between the fans and engine, so when a battery is hooked up everything gets powered up even with the key off. i suspect it's not good as my wife said she doesn't recall shutting it down and the oil filter is punctured/oil pan dry. so it all ran out the filter at some point before it was shut down either on it's own or by someone turning it off.

i believe that chassis is probably a bad fit for this body given wheelbase differences and how close the doors are to the wheel openings.

EricM
EricM SuperDork
12/24/15 3:38 p.m.

Does it have to be a van? Can it be a wagon?

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 MegaDork
12/24/15 3:59 p.m.
EricM wrote: Does it have to be a van? Can it be a wagon?

Much chatter and collaboration has happened up to this point, here.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/start-planning-for-next-year-soccer-moms-invade-th/107086/page1/

What do you have in mind?

To summarize...
This class is intended for unlikely contenders.
The SUV path has been proven by The Jeep XJ-R.
Wagons are often just sedans with a different rear window.

But, exceptions in the spirit of the Minivan intentions have been made to include early Odyssey, Aztec and Dajiban.

Of course, this does not mean you can't bring a wagon or SUV to The Challenge, just not sure it will be in the Soccer mom sub-class as well.

What do you have in mind?

pimpm3
pimpm3 Dork
12/24/15 6:25 p.m.

In reply to JohnRW1621:

Well put

CGLockRacer
CGLockRacer SuperDork
12/25/15 9:42 a.m.

Did someone say box-flaired Dijiban?

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
12/25/15 9:43 a.m.

Wasn't there a turbo Caravan at the $1500 or $2001 Challenge?

Jaynen
Jaynen Dork
12/25/15 10:34 a.m.

I'm excited just to see people take some minivans and try to make some autocross beasts out of em. Any successful lemons/chump/lucky dog groups running a van?

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