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Lugnut
Lugnut HalfDork
8/12/10 11:55 a.m.

I remember we were talking about these in a thread or two but I can't seem to find them in the archives. What's good reading material on these engines? Any series to avoid or are they all tweakable to similar power levels? (See, IL has no emission checks at all for -'95 cars)

I recall something about some stupid cheap mods that'll get these cars into the 13s.

I am really thinking about a Regal GS instead of another Volvo 850.

914Driver
914Driver SuperDork
8/12/10 12:01 p.m.

Thunderbird Supercoupes also had 3.8 with superchargers. Mine has a cam that promises 340 hp.

We'll see .....

Lugnut
Lugnut HalfDork
8/12/10 12:05 p.m.

Before I knew how to take cars apart, I had both a 5spd Super Coupe and a Bonneville SSEi. I loved them both dearly. I had no idea I could make them faster. :) But I have grown as a car enthusiast and I want to make a sedan truly, unreasonably fast. I want to increase speed beyond reason.

conesare2seconds
conesare2seconds New Reader
8/12/10 12:40 p.m.

In reply to Lugnut:

Pretty sure one of the mods mentioned was exhaust, OP said a less restrictive setup really uncorked the engine.

Try a forum search on gmhightechperformance.com when you have a sec. Unfortunately blocked at my work.

2002maniac
2002maniac HalfDork
8/12/10 12:48 p.m.

I know the early ones used a smaller blower with less potential. Not sure when they made the change though.

nicksta43
nicksta43 Reader
8/12/10 12:55 p.m.

Go fast parts There are a couple of other vendors that cater to these cars but I only have experience with ZZp.

Lots of info. These guys have been going fast with these cars for years. Quite a few guy's with Buick''s even though it's a grand prix board.

My 05 comp g is a lot quicker with my mods

.ZZp front p-log

.ZZp 3" down pipe

.ZZp 1.9 modified stock rockers

.Custom tune from Overkill Motorsports and a cold air intake.

Travis_K
Travis_K Dork
8/12/10 12:59 p.m.

The series II is the one with the M90 rather than the M62, and in the case of the grand prix started in 1997. Even stock they are decently fast, but the interior is pretty poorly made and rattles alot, and the ride and handling are very unpleasant.

4cylndrfury
4cylndrfury SuperDork
8/12/10 1:13 p.m.

regal gs is on my short list of wants. 300+ hp i4 and awd 6 speed w/3 pedals? yes please! as far as a boosted 6 cylinder, i wanna drop one into a g-body and build a good solid suspension and call 'er a day

EricM
EricM Dork
8/12/10 1:17 p.m.

according the 60 degree v6 guys you whole tuning is around suppressing the Retard Knock issue.

nicksta43
nicksta43 Reader
8/12/10 1:21 p.m.
Travis_K wrote: The series II is the one with the M90 rather than the M62, and in the case of the grand prix started in 1997. Even stock they are decently fast, but the interior is pretty poorly made and rattles alot, and the ride and handling are very unpleasant.

The handling can be fixed with the right combo of stock parts, and the aftermarket has some good bit for it as well. My 05 handles worlds better than the wife 99 gt. The suspension is basically the same for all of the w-body's and most parts will interchange. If you can find a set of biltstien's from a GXP gp for cheap they are about the best you eill be able to do for shocks. I'm just a few seconds off of an sti at my local auto-x's. He's on star specs and I'm on all season perelli's. Pretty much dead even with a mazda speed protoge who's on coilovers and by his own words has spent many thousands of dollars on his car. Go all the way down to STM at the bottom.

The gen v eaton blower from a series III is said to be a better design for getting more power and will bolt to a series II motor. Of course turbo is always an option and will ultimately get you higher power numbers. The aftermarket for a series I 3800 isn't nearly as good and most of the go fast parts won't interchange there was a big redesign of the heads between series I and II. The block is the same so you could bolt up a series II or III in the place of a earlier one to get around smog check. You can pick these motors up pretty cheaply if you look around.

klipless
klipless Reader
8/12/10 1:34 p.m.

You could do this to one. Apparently it'll run a 8.6 sec 1/4. No word on it's autocross time though.

Click here if they don't like teh hawtlinx

Lugnut
Lugnut HalfDork
8/12/10 3:23 p.m.

What about going a little bigger like a Park Avenue Ultra?

Vigo
Vigo HalfDork
8/12/10 3:41 p.m.

I personally think the Olds LSS was the SC3800 car id most like to own.

But riviera's have some appeal too because they are SOO ugly that you are DOUBLY insulting whoever you beat in a race with it. And they seem to be the cheapest sc3800 cars too.. i see them running for just over a grand on CL.

patgizz
patgizz SuperDork
8/12/10 3:55 p.m.

yeah rivs are cheap.

there is a $600 GTP on cleveland CL but it has 290k miles

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
8/12/10 4:22 p.m.

The best part of the Twin Turbo GTP thread?

Lugnut
Lugnut HalfDork
8/12/10 5:34 p.m.

I'm definitely looking to stay in a 4 door. Lots of coupes can be that fast. I want to stay practical.

pres589
pres589 HalfDork
8/12/10 6:06 p.m.

I've got a W-body, the Olds Intrigue, and one area I could never complain about is the ride. Handling is okay, it's still a front heavy FWD car, but it's not abysmal and for general use four door sedans I think it's okay in the suspension department.

I thought one of the bigger concerns with these cars was the transmission and how well it takes to a breathed on SC 3.8, although I'm sure enough money and effort can make them live through whatever can be done to the engine.

nicksta43
nicksta43 Reader
8/12/10 7:50 p.m.

Yeah, the transmissions are like a mobile home in a tornado when you get much over 300 h.p.

Vigo
Vigo HalfDork
8/12/10 8:27 p.m.

Ive rebuilt 4t60s but never built one up. I hear they can be upgraded but dont know the specifics. What i do know is that ANY kind of auto trans build up CAN double the price of a sub-$2k car in a lot of cases.

But assuming you dont buy from the bottom of the barrell like i always do, and go for a nice regal for maybe 5k, just be aware that if you NEED hi-po trans parts you should save or budget another $1k roughly, and thats getting a good deal and doing the trans r&r yourself.

MA$$hole
MA$$hole New Reader
8/12/10 8:35 p.m.

3800pro.com is a good forum to start with. From there you can find other forums & a decent amount of support. If you spend under a grand in the right areas you can easily break into the 13's.

I've got a 2000 Regal GSE that I'm trying to sell. Contact me if you are interested.

Greg Voth
Greg Voth Reader
8/12/10 8:50 p.m.

My Park Ave Ultra was a great car. I bought it with about 170,000 miles and sold it with about 210,000. Trans went at just under 200,000. Had a home depot intake, colder range plugs and a -1 pulley. Ran the 1/4 mile in the low 15's and seemed unbeatable until about 70mph.

Friend of mine has a 97 GTP with an intake, pulley, headers, tune, etc etc. Fast and still gets 28mpg but it on its 3rd trans.

I love the motor and think it would be great with a 5 speed in a RWD car. There are some 80's Regals with those swapped in and the ever present SuperStalker.

P71
P71 SuperDork
8/12/10 9:31 p.m.

Too bad you aren't up here, we have an amazing local club - PDXCGP

Local guy had a Series II N/A 3800 Impala in the 13's for next to nothing (same engine in our 01 GT). All the GTP's are low-13's to low 12's. We also have Dave Wild, who had an 11-second Buick GS (3800SC) that looked completely stock. He's building a turbo motor for it now for the 10's and possibly 9's. Great engines with massive potential (hell, they used them with a turbo in the GNX!)

As for the interior/ride, the interior is kind of typical 90's GM but I like it. No rattle from ours (112K miles), and everything works. The ride is actually quite good. Very comfortable on long distances yet still sporty enough to go on a backroads drive. It's not an autocrosser by any means, but it'll hustle a corner on good tires.

ClemSparks
ClemSparks SuperDork
8/13/10 9:44 a.m.

So...(I googled but it's tough to muddle through)

What does it take to set one of these up for a rear drive application? Manual or Auto...I'd be interested in either (though manual is always better).

I'm suddenly thinking one of these could be LOTS of fun in my AE72 Corolla.

Hmmm...

Clem

pres589
pres589 HalfDork
8/13/10 10:37 a.m.

I think there were a lot of detail differences between the turbo 3.8's and the SC 3.8's that came along later. The fuel injection was much improved and the blower cars don't have distributors where as at least the early turbo cars did.

When I drove a Park Ave. Ultra, I just felt... disconnected from the process. It was like they put a thick rubber bushing in everything that even my Olds didn't have. Like the steering wasn't sloppy, it just felt really disconnected. Brake pedal was spongy with a mile of travel. That sort of thing. Big car that can be had for not a lot of money used but they're even lamer than the magical P71 in my book.

conesare2seconds
conesare2seconds New Reader
8/13/10 12:40 p.m.

I would REALLY like to see someone put more suspension under a Park Avenue. They have great lines for a big car and could be quite a sleeper if you could get them to handle better. Deffo a DD not a track toy, but would be amusing nonetheless.

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