GTwannaB
GTwannaB GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
2/19/21 1:35 p.m.

I want to install this Whiteline rear sway bar on my completely stock 2005 Subaru Legacy 2.5i. This is a pothole dodging daily driver with 130K and will never see a track outside of the parking lot. 

https://www.amazon.com/Whiteline-BSR39Z-Heavy-Duty-Sway/dp/B0070I83XG/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=BSR39Z&qid=1613762887&sr=8-1

Price is perfect at ~$180, but the aftermarket end links start around $110. That seems pricey for my use. Are there heavy duty Moog or similar links I could use here that might not be so much $$$. If this was for a car I was tracking I wouldn't blink at the extra dollars. Just seems like a bit of overkill for me.

Related to this I am planning on adding just the back sway bar. It is adjustable and I would put it on the softest setting which is supposed to be equivalent to a 19mm bar. I believe my car has a 15mm OEM rear bar. Any concerns with changing just the rear bar? My car has always been a bit soft for my liking even with new struts (my new rear KYBs crapped out way early and I am replacing again.) 

It seems common to just do the rear bar, would this cause any snap oversteer in the snow. I only hit the snow occasionally but don't need any surprises.

Tom1200
Tom1200 SuperDork
2/19/21 1:46 p.m.

I prefer to do the bars as a set and it's not just because the bigger rear bar will change the balance in the direction of more oversteer.

If the car has loads of understeer adding a larger rear bar is fine under most circumstances. The specific issue I have is that you are adding a bar because the car has quite a bit of lean, you're curing that in the rear but leaving the front "floppy".

Secondarily is the fact that you drive it on low grip surfaces; a typical change for racing on a wet track is softening the sway bar or softer bars. So changing the rear only means you'll likely want to soften the rear bar every time it snows as the car has more oversteer than you want in the snow.

My .02 is buy the set.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
2/19/21 1:47 p.m.

It's a street car. I honestly wouldn't even bother with changing the one/both sway bars. 

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
2/19/21 1:48 p.m.

When the right rear quarter of my STI tail slapped a tree north of 70 mph, the kartboy endlink was the only component of the right rear suspension that didn't implode as if a grenade had been rolled under the car. 

 

Sometimes the price premium is worth it. 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/19/21 1:51 p.m.

In reply to GTwannaB :

The OE links can't be used?

 

Under low traction situations, vehicle weight distribution has more of a handling effect than suspension tuning.  In short, you are not going to be generating enough lateral force for suspension roll distribution to be significant.

 

Practically speaking, I welded the rear beam on a Golf, making the rear roll stiffness practically infinite, and winter handling did not change.

dps214
dps214 HalfDork
2/19/21 1:51 p.m.

Is there some reason you can't reuse the stock links? If it's primarily street use they should be just fine. I wouldn't feel bad at all doing just the rear bar, just take it easy on unusual conditions (like snow) until you feel out how the car reacts with the new setup. That said I would do both front and rear bars unless you have some good reason not to.

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
2/19/21 1:55 p.m.

Also with a modern Subaru in the snow the only way you're getting snap over steer, regardless of sway bar setup, is via use of the brake pedal or sudden stoppage of use with regards to the gas pedal. Left foot brake and you'll never have to worry about the back end coming around unexpectedly. I ran my rear sway bar, as you can see, in the stiffest setting and I removed my front rear sway bar. 

Moderately aggressive deceleration can lighten the back end and enable you to create rotation, but it is completely controllable and only induces if you intentionally seek to unbalance the chassis.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/19/21 2:03 p.m.

I put a stiffer rear sway on a 1997 Legacy GT years ago. It really helped the handling, gave it some nice dancing shoes for when you were, umm, traction limited. I think it was actually a factory unit off the taller Outback.

But end links? Use stock.

Vajingo
Vajingo Reader
2/19/21 2:37 p.m.

Unless it's lowered or raised. Then he might have issues with links and needs adjustable ones. 
 

Didn't someone here make there own adjustable links with threaded rod and nuts and eyelets?

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
2/19/21 3:06 p.m.

I'd just use the stock endlinks. Adjustable ones are really just to make sure the bar isn't preloaded, or as a substitute for correct-length links if you need a different size due to extreme changes to the OE suspension travel. Neither of those situations are likely on a street car.

I've priced it out, and for most cars you're looking at something like $50/corner in materials if you buy stuff a-la-carte to build your own.

As far as changing the balance of the car, yes, you'll likely increase oversteer by only adding rear roll stiffness. That's probably a good thing for lap times on a car that understeers normaly, but it's purely personal preference since it's a street car.

 

 

Peabody
Peabody UltimaDork
2/19/21 4:22 p.m.

In reply to Vajingo :

I made mine out of an old set of aftermarket Moog end links. Only one ball joint would routinely wear out. So I cut that joint off, threaded it and reattached it using a custom bracket, nuts, washers and urethane rubbers from an end link strut kit.

There are so many different styles of end link available it's not too difficult to figure out a custom setup. There were better options for what I wanted to do but not easier or cheaper. And I'm lazy and cheap.

The end links for our GM cars are less than $20 a side

obsolete
obsolete GRM+ Memberand Reader
2/22/21 4:42 p.m.

I had an '05 Outback 3.0R for a couple years, and yeah, the 15mm noodle rear sway bar sucks. Based on the research I did (7 years ago, but I doubt much has changed), all the aftermarket rear bars were such a huge increase in stiffness that you'd really want to do them as a front/rear set. So, instead, I ordered the largest OEM rear bar I could find, which is a 20mm hollow bar. I think it's from a JDM-only model (Spec B? Spec C?). I ordered it from AVO JDM. It's not listed on AVO's website anymore, but Amayama still shows it as available for around the same price I paid: https://www.amayama.com/en/part/subaru/20451ag001.

I used these Whiteline bushings: https://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail4.php?part_number=W0406-20G

I used stock/parts store end links. For a daily driver, they're fine.

The 20mm hollow rear bar was just enough of an adjustment to make the car nice and neutral in my opinion. Nice, easy-to-control oversteer. It was a blast to drive and this is making me miss it...

obsolete
obsolete GRM+ Memberand Reader
2/22/21 4:50 p.m.

The other thing with these cars is that the rear sway bar mounts are super cheesy. With aftermarket rear bars, they tend to bend, and can even fatigue and break over time. AVO makes a bolt-on reinforcement bracket, MSRP is $120. Because I'm a cheapskate with a welder, I just welded some 2" angle steel to mine for reinforcement. Not sure it's even necessary for the 20mm hollow bar, but y'know, while you're in there...

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/22/21 6:22 p.m.

I've made my own before.  Grade 8 bolts, Nylock nuts, washers, a tubular spacer, and some leftover rubber bushings from another application.

GTwannaB
GTwannaB GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
2/22/21 7:55 p.m.

In reply to obsolete :

I read about the JDM 20mm bar but I thought they were all gone. Not sure if I want to wait for delivery on that when I can track things on Amazon easier. Good feedback from all Thanks

 

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