1988RedT2 said:That's a Bolt? What happened to the Volt? The Volt was a somewhat attractive car.
The Volt was a PHEV based on the Chevy Cruze. When they stopped making the Cruze, they stopped making the Volt.
The Bolt is a dedicated EV on it's own platform. It's been for sale since 2016. It's not GM's latest and greatest EV effort (hence current large discounts), but it's a pretty decent EV for the time that it was developed.
The Bolt is also showing GMs ongoing research into developing and building it's own electric motors.
Frenchy, what's your finanacials looking like? What can you afford? 'Cause to echo other posters, if you're wife likes the Teslas that's honestly you're best bet as pound-for-pound they're kind of the best around. There's lots of things to know about the advancements with the S platform and it's past problems, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
GIRTHQUAKE said:
...if you're wife likes the Teslas that's honestly you're best bet as pound-for-pound they're kind of the best around.
Curious to know why you say this. I'm not so sure that's true anymore. And I think it's even less likely to be true a year from now.
SWMBO loves her 17 Volt. Not sure why. She got on a tesla kick and wanted a Model 3. She drove on and said the Volt was the better car, and apparently a few reviewers agreed with her. If she gets upgraded out of the Volt, Itll probably be an S. Not a fan of them, but happy wife, blah blah blah
STM317 said:GIRTHQUAKE said:
...if you're wife likes the Teslas that's honestly you're best bet as pound-for-pound they're kind of the best around.Curious to know why you say this. I'm not so sure that's true anymore. And I think it's even less likely to be true a year from now.
In my opinion- as someone who has only been in a P100D Once over 5 years ago and no other EVs and studies this out of interest- it all comes down to a total sum of parts. There are plenty of things that other manufactures do better than Tesla in, but nobody has beaten Tesla at the EV game in total, from things like the Model S being less than half the cost of the Tycan to the Supercharger network to their pretty stellar battery lifespans (though this will likely soon go away from everyone else entering the arena).
I do agree that the next few years are gonna see a lot of this go away- assuming the 4680 isn't as big of a game changer as I think it will be- but that's a whole different conversation. We'll just have to see if their investment in battery manufacturing and electrolyte research pays off.
When I was looking at the newest crop of EVs, four really stand out in the under $50k new price range.
I couldn't find the Hyundai or Kia locally - I think the Kia is available but the Hyundai Kona is a compliance car. Given the price of these and the fact that I wasn't happy with any of them, I decided to buy a used BMW i3 to bridge the gap between this generation and the new ones bound to appear over the next 3-4 years. I'm personally SUPER excited about the new Ioniq 5, and that will probably be my next car. Love the cyber-80s hatch looks, and it's said to be a great driving machine. Other than that, a Model S would be on my list if I could swing it.
One big advance coming over the next few years - starting with the Ioniq I believe - is the vehicle-to-grid capability of these cars. They could eventually act as a whole-home generator or a solar battery backup, which should help our electric grid reliability.
1988RedT2 said:That's a Bolt? What happened to the Volt? The Volt was a somewhat attractive car. The Bolt is apparently a queer-looking little jelly bean. No offense.
Hi, there was no need to insinuate that "queer" equates to strange or lesser. If you find the Bolt ugly, you can say so (the English language is vast) without bringing queer folks' basic standing in society into things.
I will undoubtedly catch flack for even saying something and be told to take a joke, but y'all, stop using slurs. It's not okay.
Rons said:In reply to Appleseed :
And I used to live over her left shoulder.
Then what happened? Did she file a restraining order?
Brake_L8 (Forum Supporter) said:1988RedT2 said:That's a Bolt? What happened to the Volt? The Volt was a somewhat attractive car. The Bolt is apparently a queer-looking little jelly bean. No offense.
Hi, there was no need to insinuate that "queer" equates to strange or lesser. If you find the Bolt ugly, you can say so (the English language is vast) without bringing queer folks' basic standing in society into things.
I will undoubtedly catch flack for even saying something and be told to take a joke, but y'all, stop using slurs. It's not okay.
You won't catch flack from me. I agree with you.
Brake_L8 (Forum Supporter) said:1988RedT2 said:That's a Bolt? What happened to the Volt? The Volt was a somewhat attractive car. The Bolt is apparently a queer-looking little jelly bean. No offense.
Hi, there was no need to insinuate that "queer" equates to strange or lesser. If you find the Bolt ugly, you can say so (the English language is vast) without bringing queer folks' basic standing in society into things.
I will undoubtedly catch flack for even saying something and be told to take a joke, but y'all, stop using slurs. It's not okay.
OK, you're not using your noggin. Queer predates it's homosexual connotation. There are certain slurs that can only be so, like the N-word. But taking a word that has multiple meanings and assuming that it's a slur is creating an unnecessary fuss.
Agreed. By the context, it was pretty clearly the "odd, weird, eccentric" usage of the word which is still in use. One nice thing about the GRM forum is that it's a pretty safe space, if you think something is a slur it probably isn't intended that way.
Of course, I still use master and slave when referring to hydraulic systems so I'm perhaps not modern enough to say :)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:Brake_L8 (Forum Supporter) said:1988RedT2 said:That's a Bolt? What happened to the Volt? The Volt was a somewhat attractive car. The Bolt is apparently a queer-looking little jelly bean. No offense.
Hi, there was no need to insinuate that "queer" equates to strange or lesser. If you find the Bolt ugly, you can say so (the English language is vast) without bringing queer folks' basic standing in society into things.
I will undoubtedly catch flack for even saying something and be told to take a joke, but y'all, stop using slurs. It's not okay.
OK, you're not using your noggin. Queer predates it's homosexual connotation. There are certain slurs that can only be so, like the N-word. But taking a word that has multiple meanings and assuming that it's a slur is creating an unnecessary fuss.
It's true that Queer predates it's homosexual connotation but today that's it's most common one and when it's used as a synonym for strange or lesser it implies that gays also fall into those categories. Because it's often used that way it's easy to assume it's intended that way.
There's simply no reason to use language that could be interpreted as offensive even, (or maybe especially) if you don't intend it that way.
I'm a big advocate of intent over form. Used to know two guys - one white, one black, who were inseparable friends. Yet their language was chocked full of racial language which would be intolerable in another context. In college, my future wife's best friend was gay, and he became the best man at our wedding. He liked to call himself a fag. One of the best documentaries out right now is "Crip Camp". You can guess what that's about. So calling people out for language with no concern for context or intent rubs me the wrong way. It makes me think of bureaucrats, and how they place rules over common sense.
That's it. I'll refrain from further stinking up this thread.
In my opinion, there are the Teslas, and then there's a huge gap down to everyone else.
For $49k, you can go 350 miles in a Model 3, or between 190 miles and 259 miles (GM) in another car.
The Model 3 is also just plain fast - the RWD ones do 13-second quarter miles, the AWD ones 11s and 12s - while every other economy electric is struggling to get into the 14s. Only Tesla and Porsche are selling high-power-to-weight RWD electrics.
Finally, the Tesla supercharger network is uniformly good coast-to-coast - and there are no onesie-twosie charger setups, so even if they're full you're only waiting for the most-charged car to be ready to drive off rather than negotiating with the only other driver there for when you'll both get on the road.
APEowner said:Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:Brake_L8 (Forum Supporter) said:1988RedT2 said:That's a Bolt? What happened to the Volt? The Volt was a somewhat attractive car. The Bolt is apparently a queer-looking little jelly bean. No offense.
Hi, there was no need to insinuate that "queer" equates to strange or lesser. If you find the Bolt ugly, you can say so (the English language is vast) without bringing queer folks' basic standing in society into things.
I will undoubtedly catch flack for even saying something and be told to take a joke, but y'all, stop using slurs. It's not okay.
OK, you're not using your noggin. Queer predates it's homosexual connotation. There are certain slurs that can only be so, like the N-word. But taking a word that has multiple meanings and assuming that it's a slur is creating an unnecessary fuss.
It's true that Queer predates it's homosexual connotation but today that's it's most common one and when it's used as a synonym for strange or lesser it implies that gays also fall into those categories. Because it's often used that way it's easy to assume it's intended that way.
There's simply no reason to use language that could be interpreted as offensive even, (or maybe especially) if you don't intend it that way.
Under most circumstances I'd be in complete agreement with those sentiments. I was brought up to believe a Gentleman never offends. Accordingly choose words carefully.
However the word queer does really have honest definitions other than gender preference. As an Anglophile I don't believe they use that term in regard to sexual orientation. But they do use that term freely to describe handling issues. As well as all sorts of it's original non sexual definitions.
I'll agree to disagree with half of you given the word's typical-now sort of usage. Regardless of intent, it just seems silly to even use the word if you have to immediately caveat your statement with "no offense."
Back on topic, a friend took this pic of the Mach-E I was driving as we were mid-fling through the Shenandoah Valley.
chaparral said:In my opinion, there are the Teslas, and then there's a huge gap down to everyone else.
For $49k, you can go 350 miles in a Model 3, or between 190 miles and 259 miles (GM) in another car.
The Model 3 is also just plain fast - the RWD ones do 13-second quarter miles, the AWD ones 11s and 12s - while every other economy electric is struggling to get into the 14s. Only Tesla and Porsche are selling high-power-to-weight RWD electrics.
Finally, the Tesla supercharger network is uniformly good coast-to-coast - and there are no onesie-twosie charger setups, so even if they're full you're only waiting for the most-charged car to be ready to drive off rather than negotiating with the only other driver there for when you'll both get on the road.
Thank you for your input. Your conclusion is in agreement with my thinking.
This is a serious purchase for us. The last vehicle we will buy in our lifetime.
While I always research any purchase deeply. considering the change from a lifetime of ICE to an EV I am doing the maximum.
Again I appreciate your input.
In reply to frenchyd :
She likes the Tesla so have her get what she wants. If yall can afford it.
My lady mentioned wanting a Model X in the next few years. I wonder where she'll find the money for that but I'm not against it, I love them.
Brake_L8 (Forum Supporter) said:1988RedT2 said:That's a Bolt? What happened to the Volt? The Volt was a somewhat attractive car. The Bolt is apparently a queer-looking little jelly bean. No offense.
Hi, there was no need to insinuate that "queer" equates to strange or lesser. If you find the Bolt ugly, you can say so (the English language is vast) without bringing queer folks' basic standing in society into things.
I will undoubtedly catch flack for even saying something and be told to take a joke, but y'all, stop using slurs. It's not okay.
Agreed.
There's certain words and symbols who most common/popular usage is filled with hate and hurt. The swastika is a great example. Go post that symbol around everywhere and see how it's taken vs it's original meaning.
Plus, he says "no offense" after using the word queer to negatively describe something. Which proves that he already acknowledges the word can be offensive and hurtful.
And to a gay friend calling himself a fag, some groups have used words that are typically negative or oppressive as a way to empower themselves in their own social/cultural environment. Just like I may call my best friend "my ni%%a", I don't expect anyone outside of my culture to understand what it means to be used towards us vs by us. Doesn't mean open season on the word though. And you'll never see me use it on GRM outside educational discussions but if you followed me on IG you'd see my more expended vocabulary lol. I know it sounds silly and perhaps "unfair". But, hey if thats what unfair looks like to you then life might be pretty fair for you.
Brake_L8 (Forum Supporter) said:I'll agree to disagree with half of you given the word's typical-now sort of usage. Regardless of intent, it just seems silly to even use the word if you have to immediately caveat your statement with "no offense."
In a vacuum, I completely agree that the post in question is worth some criticism, but that ignores the context of the thread. I think the "no offense" part was because he posted a critical comment about the appearance of the Bolt immediately after a Bolt owner posted pics of their personal vehicle, which they seem to like a lot. It probably wasn't "no offense" meant toward those who identify or are associated with the term queer as much as it was "no offense" meant toward the happy Bolt owners of the world.
Language can be difficult, and the perspective of the person reading it affects how it can be interpreted. A happy Bolt owner might interpret that post to mean "Your car looks ugly, no offense", while a gay person might interpret the same exact post to mean "Your car looks gay, no offense".
I'm fine with not using that particular word at all because it can be used by some to cause pain. But that doesn't mean that it was intended to be hurtful in this case, unless you're a Bolt owner that really cares what others think of their vehicle.
PS, I'm really looking forward to your reveiw of the Mach E. Any idea when we'll be able to read that?
Well before anyone buys a mach-E...I thought I liked how they look in person at first but after a few more sightings....It looks like one of those dildo vibrators that come with a bunch of features 
STM317 said:Language can be difficult, and the perspective of the person reading it affects how it can be interpreted. A happy Bolt owner might interpret that post to mean "Your car looks ugly, no offense", while a gay person might interpret the same exact post to mean "Your car looks gay, no offense".
I'm fine with not using that particular word at all because it can be used by some to cause pain. But that doesn't mean that it was intended to be hurtful in this case, unless you're a Bolt owner that really cares what others think of their vehicle.
Yeah that's about what I thought of that post, too (that the "no offense" was to calling it odd looking, rather than a slur on gays, which is ALSO a word that has multiple meanings). And I don't really care if someone finds it ugly, though in the context of modern hatchbacks, I don't think it's really fair. But so be it. What I have a problem with is statements of fact that are factually wrong. like "it can't be used for road trips" right after we just got done doing two of them. And "it only goes 250 miles" when I've posted my instrument cluster showing a 336 mile range (and 285 if I drive it hard). Or that it costs $35k, when none of them are actually selling for anywhere NEAR that. Or this:
"The instrument cluster screams 90s neon green and blue, and it just feels cheap."
I have no green or blue in the interior in mine, other than the green of the battery range bar (and that follow distance bar changes color depending on what menu item you're looking at) and it feels no cheaper than the interior of the Model 3, really (and is probably built better, too. But they shouldn't be compared directly):
Yes, there's some cool textured white bits, but that simply looks "futuristic" in person and up close, not '90s neon green and blue. The blue is on the outside. ;) lol.
It doesn't compete with a Tesla any more than a Focus ST competes with a BMW M340i just because they are both gasoline powered cars. I wish people would stop comparing the two just because they are both EVs.
frenchyd said:chaparral said:In my opinion, there are the Teslas, and then there's a huge gap down to everyone else.
For $49k, you can go 350 miles in a Model 3, or between 190 miles and 259 miles (GM) in another car.
The Model 3 is also just plain fast - the RWD ones do 13-second quarter miles, the AWD ones 11s and 12s - while every other economy electric is struggling to get into the 14s. Only Tesla and Porsche are selling high-power-to-weight RWD electrics.
Finally, the Tesla supercharger network is uniformly good coast-to-coast - and there are no onesie-twosie charger setups, so even if they're full you're only waiting for the most-charged car to be ready to drive off rather than negotiating with the only other driver there for when you'll both get on the road.
Thank you for your input. Your conclusion is in agreement with my thinking.
This is a serious purchase for us. The last vehicle we will buy in our lifetime.
While I always research any purchase deeply. considering the change from a lifetime of ICE to an EV I am doing the maximum.
Again I appreciate your input.
I think it's important to note that real world range and EPA rated range can be very different for EVs. I would try hard to avoid basing a purchase decision on "rated range". Don't assume that you'll actually get the "rated range", and don't assume that having a high or low number for the "rated range" is all that relative to being a leader or laggard in the field.
When released into the real world, they tend to consistently underperform their rated range, while EVs from more established automakers tend to outperform their EPA rated ranges. EVERY Tesla that Edmonds has tested has underperformed it's rated range, while every EV from a legacy automaker (save the Polestar) has overperformed it's rated range. I think that's an interesting trend:
There are lots of Youtube videos with real world range tests of various EVs. They're probably worth tracking down if you're considering a certain model.
In reply to STM317 :
Also look at the tests by Bjorn Nyland on youtube, he does real world tests and super cold winter tests. A lot of people use him as the best example of real world mileage for EV's.
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