Talk to me about getting kids started in karts

I have a couple of nephews (4 and 6 y.o.) who have shown an interest in tools and wheeled noisemakers. Their dad is not mechanically inclined at all, and talked to me about using them as shop help this summer. Sounds like babysitting to me, but in the spirit of enabling budding young gearheads...

Their dad autocrosses occasionally; he doesn't feel he can afford to race his daily, but he has some friends in the local FF Cobra club and codrives with them. He doesn't have the money to get them started in karting, but is open to the idea. I have the money, no kids, and a sliver of mechanical inclination.

I have a bead on a pair of '70s Margay race karts with spares for well inside my annual budget for sponsoring young drivers. Package deal comes with two rolling chassis (Cheetah model, I think), two freshly built McCullough 91b reed valve 2 strokes, lots of spares (seats, pipes, tanks, clutches, etc). One was set up for enduro, wet clutch, big tank, 4 wheel brakes with bias adjustment.

What do I need to know about karting that might affect this decision? I have a good handle on the SCCA rules. Is a modern chassis so much better than a vintage chassis that I ought to spend 2-3 times as much on kiddos who might not have fun with it? Could we upgrade an old chassis to make it more competitive, or would it be a stepping stone to bigger/better/newer karts down the line?

Maybe take them to a local track and see if they even enjoy it first?

I’m hoping to take my 7 year old daughter out to AMP in the next couple weeks and let her ride with me in the 2-seater.

She’s expressed interested...but she also expressed interest in Thunder Mountain till it scared the E36 M3 out of her. 

To possibly save time and money for everyone involved, I'd have them just drive the go karts around the neighborhood or a parking lot; see if they actually enjoy it first. I've gotten my own toddler a plethora of toys to only find out that she couldn't care less about them after playing with them once.

Then if one or both show excitement driving what's essentially their own little car, let them paint parts on it and what not. Enables to make the kart "theirs", thereby increasing the possible enjoyment of it and the excitement of getting to drive it.

If a part needs replaced, get them involved; more than just holding the flashlight or handing tools over to you. You'd likely have to get bolts started for both starting and finishing, but let them do the in-between process.

Beyond that initial phase, I have no idea as my daughter is currently all about baking and cooking.

At the very least swap the McCulloughs for a new Briggs LO206 4 stroke with a restrictor so they don’t die the first time out.

I don’t think they’ll necessarily fit in those Margays as I believe most jr karts are dimensionally smaller than adult karts. And you’ll need to add side pods or bodywork for SCCA and probably any WKA/IKF race too. 

I’d get them a powerwheels first and see if they even like driving before dropping the money on karts. 

don't buy 70's Margays, too many changes in the classes and age limits to get into here, none are legal if you wanted to race, but the tech has changed, the tires have changed, the classes are all spec'd - you'd spend more time modding the karts to adapt to little kids then you would driving them, then they wouldn't handle and they'd be too fast for the little guys to adapt to and you'd scare them more than help them.

Most karting clubs have a "try it out "program. KartNow is one, I'm sure there are more. Ours charges $75 for a 1 hour arrive and drive session with a coach/mechanic to answer the questions and get the kid up to speed on a practice day. Get a hold of your local club and start there. 

The 4 year old will be at the minimum age for the Baby karts, the 6 year old will be in the average age for the Baby Kart class, but they both can race it. The karts are physically smaller and all use comer 50 cc motors, its a spec class, speed limited, safe, and fun. If it were me, i would try it out and get a Baby Kart (CRG, Birel, Tonykart, etc), a minty used one is cheaper than new, but new is $2700ish. You can usually buy a 1 or 2 year old set up with gear from a guy moving up a class. The class doesn't change so re-sale value is good when/if they want to move up to the Briggs or Rotax. I would get 1 kart and have the kids rotate weekends, one helps out with set up, tires etc while the other drives. They learn both sides of the drivers seat and have a great time with family. The boys can communicate on the same level - their dad can certainly get involved.

this is a fantastic thing to do, helping the kids. I've been involved in Karting since i was there age - karting was some of the best memories of my childhood, it will be for theirs as well. PM me if you have any questions, i'll help anyway i can.

Matt

 Do you have an indoor karting place in your area?  We have one here in town and also in Boston.  The local place is great for small fry.  My local auto cross club has members that would let kids try karts out in their neighborhoods, then auto cross them at the club.  SCCA here has a great jr karting program in New England, I don't know about other regions.

If I may threadcrap for a moment...  

Once you have determined that the child(ren) is(are) interested in karting, how do you go about coaching them?  Mine are 12, 11, and 10 and they are all interested.  The older two have been out at Full Throttle on the indoor karts and love it.  They all beg me to take them whenever I can, which is awesome.  But I haven't had any luck with trying to tell them after the fact: "remember on your second lap when you were two feet away from the apex before you started to turn in?".  

I've tried going out and driving along with them and all that, but I just can't give any good feedback.  I'm not trying to raise a crowd of Alonso-ettes or anything, but I want to be able to help them improve since that's what they're asking of me.

Video with a film session afterwards?  e-racing at home with some coaching before/after heading to the track?  Just let them figure it out?  Is there some sort of radio headset setup that would be inexpensive?

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In reply to wae :

like anything, its about seat time. break it into 3 different arenas 1) high performance driving 2) learning a racetrack 3) racing. teach the basics of HPD with books, diagrams and a white board. tell them the basics of terminology and basic vehicle dynamics at home in the classroom. then go to the track and apply what they've learned in the dynamic classroom. when applicable, adapt the basics of HPD to the unique characteristics of the track you happen to be at, what hills do to braking zones, of camber corners, parabolic corners, double apexes, etc. if and when you get to wheel to wheel racing, that's a different chapter.

but if its one thing that is true, kids will learn quickly with another kid there own age running in front of them. 

Mon son is going into his 4th season karting. He races champ karts which are fully caged oval oriented karts. Some places race them on dirt, and some on pavement. We do pavement. He is 10.

I hillclimb and rally, and I also work in professional racing in a non technical role. I'm fairly competent mechanically.

If I'm 100% honest, karting has been Waaaaaaaay more work than I ever expected. Where he races is basically a club, so it's not like it's crazily competitive. However there are places that are a few steps up on the crazy meter.

Make sure you find a good track with a good bunch of people, that makes all the difference in the world.

I spend way more time on my sons kart than I do my race car for any given event. Nothing quite hits you in the heart quite like seeing your kid not race, because the kart has a mechanical failure. My son loves it, and so I keep doing it. I could care less if he wins, but if his kart fails, that ruins me.

I'll honestly be happier when he can graduate to a car, as that is more my wheelhouse.

While he is happy to wrench, I find that my time to work on it is typically after his bedtime. So there isn't as much father/son wrench time as I'd like.

My honest suggestion is this:

If you live some place that has indoor karting or kart rentals, they likely have an arrive and drive league that meets every couple of weeks. Give that a try first. If we had that available here, I'd do that in a heart beat. Then graduate from there.

Then get a kart that is ready to go as best as can be expected from someone you trust. Expect a bit more work. These things can vibrate themselves apart, so the constant maintenance is kind of must if you want to avoid disappointment. Smaller and tighter tracks will result in more race damage, so be prepared with that.

I don't want to discourage you, but want you to go into it eyes wide open. Remember to keep it fun. A pro driver I respect once told me that his dad said that if he stopped smiling at the track, they'd pack the stuff up and go home. I've tried to instill that in my son, and try to demonstrate it. Do yourself a favor, if its a weekly series, don't try to hit every week right off.

In 2002 we bought a 1984 Margay KT100 powered kart for my then 8 year old son to run. We installed a kid seat, some pedal extensions and ran it for the next 6 years. 

Rules not notwithstanding no one would protest if you ran an old 91B powered kart as they are not going to be competitive against newer Karts (assuming the drivers are equal) 

We have several junior Karts running at local autocross and what some of the families do when the kids are close in age is share the same Kart.

My wife's nephew has is daughter coming up for the summer, she is 13 and I've asked them if she wants to run a Kart. We have a friend selling one cheap so my plan should she wish to drive is run the summer events and then sell the kart off at the end of the summer.