Tata Nano

It is now being sold in China at the princely price of $2500 brand new, wont come here due to safety standards.

Meanwhile USA car builders release cars like the Challenger for up to $45K

Discuss

Question: So given that the Nano sells for $2500 in China and they must be making a profit or they wouldn't bother, why can't the Big 3 sell a bare bones entry level car for $10K and make a profit?

Answer: stringent safety and emissions standards coupled with way higher labor costs.

Question: Why does the Challenger come out at $45K?

Answer: It's a 'halo' car designed to stir up interest so they released the high end Hemi SRT version first. There will be less expensive versions (V6 and V8 powered) on the streets soon. They will still be in the 20's.

Right now we here in the Great Satan are realizing that maybe we need to trim back a bit. Hey, when the richie richie shoppers at high end stores are taking their expensive junk out in plain bags so as to not appear ostentatious, you gotta think there's a weather change in attitudes coming.

So if the car manufacturers are to survive, they best quit with all the high end crap (except for niche vehicles) and start producing solid transportation at an honest price.

The sad thing is, that maybe they could sell a small "un-safety'd" car in the US and make sure the buyer understands there is less than standard safety. But even if they did, they would still get sued by some a-hole because they were selling an unsafe car, despite the fact that huge SUV's make most small cars "unsafe". Or the manufacturer would get sued for discrimination, since only poor would buy the "unsafe" car.

The funny thing is, you can freely go out and buy a totally "unsafe" car right now, and nobody sues anybody... they are known as used cars!!! And guess who buys most of them? (present company excluded of course), poorer people!!

The Chevy dealer down the street from me is advertising Cobalts for 13K. That actually isn't that bad a price.

it is not even the emissions and safety stuff.. it is all the CRAP that new cars have. I swear that some cars have more amenities than my apartment.

do we really need power adjustable everything (handles work great!) power everything (do they still make wind up windows?) and 4 zone climate control? Not to mention 3 million cup holders, parking assist, and enough sensors to choke the computers on the spaceshuttle.

@Mad_Machine: I think it was determined that properly engineered power windows an actually weigh less than the wind up ones. I do however agree that there are too damned many doodads on basic cars these days. If I want that stuff, I'd buy the more upscale models. Then again, we've proven over and over that we in GRM-Land are the minority since many of us actually enjoy the act of driving and want to get closer to that experience, while many of the driving public view it as a necessary evil and anything to distract them (or make more efficient use of that precious time) from that act is welcomed and apparently expected.

Most people use their cars to get from point A to point B and they want to be comfortable and entertained while they drink their coffee and talk on the phone. And we have to suffer because of it.

suffer I have been.. with the nice weather EVERYONE is out driving.. can't believe how many I have passed doing UNDER the speed limit

While safety is important I want to point out the Challenger price equals EIGHTEEN Nanos. How much does an airbag cost

Well, a Rolex and a Timex both tell time, but they don't cost the same. You're comparing apples and oranges.

When I went to Trinidad a few weeks ago, i saw a cubic buttload of small diesels. Cars, trucks. Please explain to me why we cannot have those here? I did not see a single truck that was not diesel, not one. Large, small, mini, not one.

cwh wrote: When I went to Trinidad a few weeks ago, i saw a cubic buttload of small diesels. Cars, trucks. Please explain to me why we cannot have those here? I did not see a single truck that was not diesel, not one. Large, small, mini, not one.

Because outside of the diehard enthusiasts the average american's opinion of diesels was formed by the less than quality GM offerings in the 80s.

Sadly there's just not a large market...as much as those of us who get it would like there to be.

I saw a Zenn dealer randomly while driving through New London, OH. The "cars" are so ridiculous looking I had to stop and take a look. They were made in China, have a range of 25 miles, and top out at 40mph.

They are tiny; I noticed the motorcycle brakes on the rear. There were a couple other brands sold there, I think I remember Tata and Zap!. The three wheeled trikes look awful dangerous. Fit and finish is poor, and there was already rust on the suspension components sitting at the dealership. They are around $11k new. You would never be able to leave town with them, because they are like 20 miles from anywhere...

Zenn Dealer

stuart in mn wrote: Well, a Rolex and a Timex both tell time, but they don't cost the same. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Why is it apples and oranges, more like fillet mignion and a ball park frank...point is why don't we have an affordable economical choice

The Challenger is not the most "entry-level" Dodge aussieman! Price out a base-model Caliber if you really want to get closer to comparison. The Challenger SRT8 is a friggin HALO car! It's supposed to be flashy and expensive!

Jensenman wrote: Question: So given that the Nano sells for $2500 in China and they must be making a profit or they wouldn't bother, why can't the Big 3 sell a bare bones entry level car for $10K and make a profit?

The few reasons I can come up with are:

1) Americans are, by design, a bit spoiled and have perhaps turned their backs on a simplistic vehicle that won't go well with their iPhone. Kids of my generation spoiled rotten and don't remember a time when there were still zero-optioned cars that were fun to drive.

2) It costs about as much to engineer and build a $15k car that doesn't suck as it does a $10k car that doesn't suck.

3) Much like other manufacturers(VW and Subaru come to mind, mostly), I think the Big Three is trying to bring their reputation and wares upmarket a bit. No one wants to be known as someone who makes acceptable products but whose sales are dominated by $4/day rental cars.

4) The used car market isn't helping. Given the choice between a $10k new car and 2006's used $18k import for $10k, the latter is usually chosen.

That being said, Henry Ford had it right. Concentrate on making cars, not a profit. Build a quality, durable product that can scream off the assembly lines practically by themselves, run off a million, and price them so low people can't stay away.

Here is the list of the 10 cheapest cars in the US

http://cars.about.com/od/helpforcarbuyers/tp/10_cheapest.htm

Still 4 times what the Chinese are paying

YaNi wrote: I saw a Zenn dealer randomly while driving through New London, OH. The "cars" are so ridiculous looking I had to stop and take a look. They were made in China, have a range of 25 miles, and top out at 40mph. ...

Yea, I "know" the owner of that dealership and she is convinced that those things are the future of transportation.

mad_machine wrote: (do they still make wind up windows?)

yes they did at least until 07. My wife focus has widow cranks, the only option the has is a CD player.

IIRC, the base Accent hatch I tested a few months ago had crank windows. Neat little rental beater otherwise, though.

I see driving on the street as a necessary evil...gas brake honk, honk honk gas, brake honk punch, gas gas gas...

I'm pretty sure the first 3 cars on that list are $9995 in Canada. Have you seen the exchange rate lately? That would be about $7850 US

You really can't compare a Challenger to a Nano. Its like comparing a Piper Cub to the Space Shuttle. The Nano is aimed at the domestic Indian market, and emerging markets like China and some former soviet-block countries and smaller asian nations. There, the standard is a bicycle, or perhaps a moped, scooter or even a smoky diesel contraption. The move to a Nano is a paradigm shift, like the Model T, the VW Bug or the Citroen 2CV. It is designed to put people on wheels, not compete with American Luxo-barges.

The Nano and cars like the Toyota IQ do point out some interesting details about American cars. Look at the Nano and you will not see a rear hatch or a fuel-filler door. Why? Those require additional stampings, hinges, release mechanisms, etc. This increases cost, complexity reduces body rigidity and increases maintenance items. The Nano has a hood, and everything is accessed under it. The rear storage compartment is accessed by folding the rear seat forward. Compare that to the complexity of the (3) auto-opening doors on the average minivan. (I will avoid the side-discussion on fat lazy Americans who can't open their own doors because I am certainly guilty of that stereotype). The IQ has front seats that are identical. One part, either side. Less cost, less inventory, and easier to replace. Driver seat wears out? Swap them. That kind of smart thinking that I wish would trickle into the cars we see here in the States.

The Nano is also pretty safe for its intended environment. On the streets of New Delhi, a family of four is WAY safer in a Nano than sharing a scooter. Sure, on the DC Beltway dodging semi's at 90mphn the Nano can't compare to the Challenger, but that is not what it was designed for. I for one am happy that I live in a Country where SRS, ABS, HSS, ESC, TCC, and other acronyms keep me and my family safe, even if my cars cost more. But a bit more of the spirit of safe, cost-effective engineering would be nice.