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Capt Slow
Capt Slow Reader
5/6/09 1:00 a.m.

Here is a link to the data:

linky

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Production Editor
5/6/09 8:35 a.m.

I'm not really loving that data stream either. One of the advantages to the "full zoot" systems like TraqMate (love it!) or MaxQData (love it almost as much) is the easy to use data format.

All of this data is configurable, the display can be changed to show as much or little of the collected data stream as you'd like. It's not cheap, but in this case, there are a lot of features that are otherwise hard or even impossible to collect. If you have the talent to DIY a system that could compete feature-for-feature for less money, stop posting on message boards and start a business. :P

For a super bargain solution, I'm still using the non-gps DynoLycious app on my iphone. The data plots that it uses are easy to read, and while it doesn't draw maps or anything like that, it does a pretty good job of reporting peaks accurately. Until I can afford a TraqMate of my own, this will have to do.

This is a plot that I took with the Project WRX at the Dixie National Tour. If you have a course map, you can compare the data stream and match it to the course. I don't see a whole lot of use for that every day, however. I suppose if you were lapping the same course, you could split the laps in photoshop and layer them for comparison.

Capt Slow
Capt Slow Reader
5/6/09 11:09 a.m.

The data stream was a bit dissapointing. A lot of that has to do with crap GPS points, I am guessing this is due to bad signal. (It was probably mounted in a bad spot in the car)

I have stayed away fromt the traqmate becasue of cost considerations (I felt the $500) for the maxQ system was already pushing what I wanted to spend.

But I suppose I should at least look at it... (Why do I think this is going to be an expensive look)

For the max Q users was I correct in the first post about being able to integrate video into the analysis software at no extra cost ? Has anyone done this? can they comment on it?

Can traqMate do this ?

Capt Slow
Capt Slow Reader
5/7/09 12:31 a.m.

Damm you Tom !!!

after reading the manual, downloading and playing with the software I have to say the traqmate looks like a fantastic system... and if you go for the complete system there are some pretty neat things you can do... Its definitely the Cadillac of the bunch, hmmm how am I going to justify this to my wife???

it is twice as expensive as the max Q system though.... And it appears that what you are paying for is not much more capability, but a finished easy to use product that isn't "fiddly" maybe I will have another look at the max q stuff. I should test the "flight" software too...

Keith
Keith GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
5/7/09 12:53 a.m.

We have a Traqmate on loan at Flyin' Miata right now. Sorry, but we were blown away right from the start. Now, all I need is a datalog on our track from a fast driver so I can compare...

BrentP
BrentP
5/7/09 3:34 a.m.

Gentlemen:

We're collecting applications from interested and capable beta testers for RaceCapture, our upcoming Data Acquisition and Control System.

Information page: http://www.autosportlabs.net/RaceCapture

Notable features include:

  • Precision 4 axis accelerometer module
  • 5Hz 32 channel GPS
  • Analog and digital inputs and outputs
  • Logging to 100Hz on standard SD Memory
  • Powerful 32 bit ARM processor
  • Hardware expandable
  • Rugged, compact design

In addition to Data Acquisition, RaceCapture will support complex control capabilities, with easy to define custom logic: just peel back the covers a bit to reveal a general purpose automotive computer. It will be a DIY'ers delight!

We are currently in development on a comprehensive data analysis / configuration software package- we welcome any ideas or suggestions in this area.

Our philosophy is oriented towards heavy community support of our projects, emphasized for the DIY'er yet welcome to all. As a result, pricing will reflect this approach.

Thank you for your time!

Brent Picasso

Autosport Labs

http://www.autosportlabs.com

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand Reader
5/7/09 11:20 a.m.

e-mail sent... :)

Capt Slow
Capt Slow Reader
5/7/09 5:37 p.m.

Anybody aware of an open source data analyisis package?

BrentP
BrentP New Reader
5/7/09 6:09 p.m.

We are seriously considering making the analysis software portion of RaceCapture open source (GPL), or at least free of charge. If you want to get a rough idea of the look and feel, take a look at the config/tuning software for our crank fired ignition system:

http://www.autosportlabs.net/Megajolt_Lite_Jr.

Note, the charting/graphing portion will be tuned up considerably.

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Production Editor
5/7/09 7:28 p.m.

I'd like to hear more about your software, Brent. I like the idea of having a lot of control over the data and display. However, if it's too loosely presented, it's harder to interpret and less usable.

The biggest benefit of a robust software package is the intuitive user interface. The first time I fired up Traqview, I was able to understand and configure the data display to show the information that I was looking for. Awesome hardware doesn't do much for me without awesome software.

Capt Slow
Capt Slow Reader
5/7/09 11:38 p.m.

Tom Heath said:

If you have the talent to DIY a system that could compete feature-for-feature for less money, stop posting on message boards and start a business. :P

Well Tom your going to cost me time or money

Look what I found today:

sensor

GPS

Capt Slow
Capt Slow Reader
5/7/09 11:58 p.m.
Tom Heath wrote: I'd like to hear more about your software, Brent. I like the idea of having a lot of control over the data and display. However, if it's too loosely presented, it's harder to interpret and less usable. The biggest benefit of a robust software package is the intuitive user interface. The first time I fired up Traqview, I was able to understand and configure the data display to show the information that I was looking for. Awesome hardware doesn't do much for me without awesome software.

What he said!

BrentP
BrentP New Reader
5/8/09 3:00 a.m.
Tom Heath wrote: I'd like to hear more about your software, Brent. I like the idea of having a lot of control over the data and display. However, if it's too loosely presented, it's harder to interpret and less usable. The biggest benefit of a robust software package is the intuitive user interface. The first time I fired up Traqview, I was able to understand and configure the data display to show the information that I was looking for. Awesome hardware doesn't do much for me without awesome software.

Agreed. In addition to providing flexible and meaningful ways to express and relate acquired data, I've received quite a bit of feedback on needing tools and views that are optimized towards particular uses. For example- quick-turn autocross run analysis vs. post-event road race analysis.

Tom, sent you a PM.

Regards, Brent Picasso Autosport Labs

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand Reader
5/8/09 6:49 a.m.
Capt Slow wrote: Tom Heath said: If you have the talent to DIY a system that could compete feature-for-feature for less money, stop posting on message boards and start a business. :P Well Tom your going to cost me time or money Look what I found today: sensor GPS

While Brent tells us more about thier very, very cool system...

Think about this- if you look at a Megasquirt board, there's space on their for two more inputs. And you can replace one or two of the rest for different inputs.

Put that on bluetooth (which is available already) and integreate the 5 channel GPS, you can have a very DYI system.

But.

So far, nobody has software for the most common PDA or smartphones (I want WM5 for my Dell). I like the PDA option, since it's easier to carry, and the WM systems have on board plotting programs that are pretty cool. The data analysis software is the tough part. Well, really the integration of GPS and the accelerometers is the tough part.....

Brent's system looks quite complete.

Eric

walterj
walterj Dork
5/8/09 8:13 a.m.

Brent, I sent you an emil regarding your beta... from the link on your site. I didn't see a reply as of yet but if you are planning to open the interfacing source code I'm doubly interested as a beta tester and all-in as contributor.

This is something that I have tried to put together for my self and had mixed successes with due to my limited experience with designing circuit boards and so forth... I had used an AVR processor to tie an accelerometer, a GPS and a few inputs together to drive some analysis (integrated with Motec software). I struggled because of the hardware - software is my forte.

If your product had been available at the time and I could have bent the software to my will you would have had an easy sale ;)

You probably still do -

Scott Lear
Scott Lear Club Editor
5/8/09 9:08 a.m.

To add to your list of potentials, give the RLC Enterprises Track Commander a look. http://rlcracing.com/Micro_Pod_Track_Commander.htm It retails for $695. We're going to be using this one with our MINI Cooper S NASA Performance Touring project, and I did a little bit of tinkering with it during a recent 240Z test at PBIR. It's the easiest to install system I've ever seen; basically the same setup as the average Nav system, you suction it to the windshield and plug it into the cig lighter. Touch screen, color display, 2 gigs of internal storage space, easy to download the data, predictive lap timing, and a specific Autocross mode.

We'll be doing a full review in the magazine as soon as we get it on track with the MINI in competition and the project car updates start coming, we've got a bit of a teaser in the 240Z story in the upcoming August 09 issue.

Type Q
Type Q HalfDork
5/8/09 9:27 a.m.

Slow,

IIRC you are just a hop skip and a jump south of me. I have an older MaxQ 5hz GPp setup that you are welcome to see in action at our next local autocross. One of the side benefits of using it is that there is a group here in silicon valley that's sharing their data files after SCCA autocross events. You can take a look at it here. www.racingchart.com. They may very well be able to accommodate data from other systems as well.

Capt Slow
Capt Slow Reader
5/8/09 12:16 p.m.

Thanks, Type Q!

Are you going to be at the dual at deanza? I think I got in...

I have missed all of the SCCA events since the slush series ended, but I am planning on attending the rest of the events this season. I should be at the divisionals.

Wow, the racing chart website looks pretty neat (even if I had to check it out on my pda) I will have to play with it some more when I get home.

hege
hege New Reader
5/8/09 3:01 p.m.

Data logger companies usually offer the analysis software with sample data for free so people can check it out before they buy it. I advise you to take your time and get to know the software that they supply with the unit, because it will be your best friend when analysing the data.

My experience is that you pay for the software. The hardware on loggers is usually pretty much the same. Most of them have GPS and G-Force anyway.

I've used MaxQdata, AIM, Race-Technology and Motec, and they all have their good and bad.

The MaxQdata was good at displaying lap times and was useful as an display for the driver. The Race Technology DL1 with it's analysis software was good when you wanted dig deep into the data and had the option to add cheap generic sensors to the system if you felt like upgrading your system to an extensive driver/car monitoring system.

The MaxQdata data analysis system was very poor. You could do a quick analysis on the spot, but the small screen of the PocketPC isn't good when you want to do accurate analysis. When analysing data it's very important to see all the detail. 1% too slow on a 100second race course is 1 second, and when searching 1% differences in the data you need to bring it up on big screen. The MaxQdata can be used on a PC, but the last time I used it, the software was the same as on PocketPC, so it wasn't very powerful.

The DL1 doesn't have a display, so you will need to buy the display which costs almost as much as the logger, or you will have to buy something else to show you your lap times. Seeing lap times on a race track is very important, and drivers usually go berzerk if they can't see their lap time while driving the car.

I checked the options and tested the analysis software of different loggers and came to the conclusion that the Race Technology DL1 was the best choice for me. I wanted a logger with an easy software that could be upgraded with throttle, brake and steering sensors. I still have the MaxQdata though, and as I can't justify buying the display for the DL1 at this time, I will be using it to show lap times while driving.

I spent an half year looking for a used DL1, and when the opportunity finally came, I jumped on it. I found mine on ebay.

I'm not saying the software on other loggers isn't as powerful as the DL1's. For example the AIM software is just as powerful. The AIM software works a bit different, and I preferred the DL1 better. I know this is grass roots, so I wont mention Motec. But you really get what you pay for. The analysis software that Motec has is stunning. It's so easy, simple and effective to use that it's very fun to work with.

Capt Slow
Capt Slow Reader
5/11/09 11:47 p.m.

That is essential what I have been doing. I have now polluted my computer with several different analysis programs. From your description I am suspicious that maxQ has updated their software since you last used it, though it is really crude compared to the traqmate software.

I am surprised that there is not an open source program available out there. I did a quick search of source forge and though I turned up program to analyze GPS data for yacht racing and paragliding I didn't see anything for auto racing. Which is pretty surprising considering how many 1 and 0 stackers (programmers) we have out there.

MazdaFan
MazdaFan None
6/15/10 3:53 a.m.
Capt Slow wrote: Anybody aware of an open source data analyisis package?

I was considering this, Capt Slow. 3 axis accelerometers are in the $25-$30 range. 3 axis gyros are close to the same. AVR Micros are sub $10. (bit of an electronics geek here) The big problem is software, and probably not the part that you would think. Getting windows to talk through a serial port (or USB or Bluetooth) seems to be some great "hidden secret" for all us non-professional programmer types. The programming of the micros looks to be fairly straight foward. This may be my winter project after the autocross season is over.

turboswede
turboswede SuperDork
6/15/10 11:12 a.m.

The only thing I've not been able to sort out is the AMB lap timer transponder. If there was a way to interface with that, then you just have to worry about how to manage the data streams and display it in an understandable format.

Any thoughts?

turboswede
turboswede SuperDork
10/19/10 1:18 p.m.

Not sure if you've seen or heard of this:

http://www.racerender.com/Features.html

Looks pretty dang awesome!

Also, if you're into rolling your own DAQ solution:

http://www.parallax.com/DAQPacAutomotiveDataLogger/tabid/849/Default.aspx

I think I might try to build one of these DAQPac's to see how it works.

Also, Logomatic V2 from SparkFun could be handy as well with the right code (multithreaded software is available in the forum if you search for it along with single threaded code to monitor GPS, etc).

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
10/19/10 1:45 p.m.
turboswede wrote: Not sure if you've seen or heard of this: http://www.racerender.com/Features.html Looks pretty dang awesome! Also, if you're into rolling your own DAQ solution: http://www.parallax.com/DAQPacAutomotiveDataLogger/tabid/849/Default.aspx I think I might try to build one of these DAQPac's to see how it works. Also, Logomatic V2 from SparkFun could be handy as well with the right code (multithreaded software is available in the forum if you search for it along with single threaded code to monitor GPS, etc).

A friend at work and I are working on a similar project- not quite so much on the board as that one, but it will work with software called RaceChrono.com- I've played with it a little and it works well.

If there's enough mass to modify the non GPS logging data, I'm pretty sure they would alter the software to support the channels taht are in the above project. Our DIY logger will be 4 analog channels, rpm, GPS, 3 axis accelerometers and 2 axis gyros (to correct the accelerometer info). A different friend was supposed to go vintage racing with it this past weekend, but I've not heard how it went, yet.

For that particular project- I was wondering where the main board came from. It looks like a custom prited circuit board.

I think the race renderer softwar will work with out set up, too.

turboswede
turboswede SuperDork
10/19/10 2:19 p.m.
alfadriver wrote: For that particular project- I was wondering where the main board came from. It looks like a custom prited circuit board.

Yes, the board is a custom made 4-layer board with some surface-mount components. My plan was to build it in a breadboard and see if Parallax or someone else would produce the boards.

You can have boards produced on your own. Google around and you should find some info on folks doing their own boards, including software, how to flow solder using a toaster oven for SMT, etc.

I'm still working on pricing the components out. Haven't even looked at board production. At least he provided the code he used.

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