Thinking about a Tow rig . . .

Not anytime soon . . .

But . . .

Mrs. Zero said I need to start thinking about something bigger to tow the 350is to events.

Translation: There's no way in hell you are leaving me here while you go to races. Please buy something bigger than the Dakota so I can stretch out in . . . . And for berkeley sake, have working A/C!!

My first thought was a sell the Dakota and get a 3/4 ton truck. But then a Suburban would seem to be a better choice (and I keep the Dakota to do truck stuff).

A cursory evaluation (quick CL search) shows some local Burbs for sale for a nice (challenge) price. All of them are big blocks . . . Other than abysmal mileage (Dakota gets 11mpg pulling the 350is), am I nuts for looking at these?

Weight:

• Trailer = 2000lbs
• Car = 2500lbs
• Tools and camping equip = ~500lbs

Tahoe?

E150 conversion van. Cheap to buy, and enough stretch out room to sleep in it when at the track.

I my area Suburbans are dirt cheap compared to similar trucks. I have a '99 2500 burb that I picked up as my "truck". It has the small block which is better on gas when not towing, but lacks power when going up steep highway grades.

Fold down the seats and you can fit all kinds of crap back there including full sheets of plywood.

Singleslammer recently acquired a Suburban. He can give you some "I've towed across Kansas" first hand experience.

Mrs. Sparks likes oldschool suburbans. If we had one as an only truck, I'd need a trailer to go along with it for the "truck stuff" you mentioned. But I think that would be an apt compromise.

Clem

I've found that where I am (ymmv) that 'Burbs and Tahoes/Yukons are in much better shape than same price trucks. Seem more likely to be taken care of. Plus you can sleep in the back and keep all your stuff dry. For those weights I think a full size SUV would do you just fine. And you can do almost all the truck stuff with just the 'burb. lumber goes inside and stays dry, gravel and mulch goes in a trailer.

Can you tell I've been having this same question/thought process?

I picked up a 2003 Suburban 3/4 ton with the 8.1l V8. It has been a great tow rig so far and as Clem mentioned it made it across Kansas (from central MO) and up 8K feet elevation hauling a 31 foot airstream filled with crap (read over 6k lbs). If we would have been a little nicer on the way home, it would have got near 10 MPG, instead driving 80 we only managed 9 mpg for the trip. This is with 230K miles on it. I bought it for $4,250 and put another $500 in preventative parts before the trip and have had zero problems. The 8.1l is great, but the LS variants will do just as good with better mpgs. However, unless you find a 6.0L 3/4 ton you will probably have the 4L60E which I wanted to avoid. With this kind of mileage, it was only a matter of time for it to fail. If you want the wife to be happy, get a 2000+ as the interiors got much better. I am happy with it even though it is a little ugly.

Thanks!!

Any opinions on a 1996ish with 454 and T400?

In reply to Toyman01:

I mentioned a van and got the side eye!!

Scary bad mileage but you know that already.

I have a '99 burb 1/2 ton with the 350. It's fine towing 5000 lbs but is well out of league when I hook up a 8,500 lb trailer....

In a few years I'll probably look for something newer but for my investment ($1,600 + $1,000 in deferred maintenance) it's a good old truck.

Should be bulletproof. That would have the Vortec 454 and 4l80e trans

I am on my 3rd Suburban/Yukon XL, ('97 Sub, '04 Yukon XL, '14 Sub) they are great tow vehicles. Ride is super smooth, mileage wise they aren't too bad. I average 13 mpg towing about 5k running at 70 through New England hills. I loved my Yukon the best, the seats are incredibly comfortable and ergonomics were good. The new truck rides nice but lost a lot of what I loved in the previous generations, they have become too much of a soccer mom status symbol less utility vehicle. The biggest complaint I had with my older ones was that many of the electric/electronic goodies break when you get up near 200k miles but the 5.3 and 5.7 engines just keep chugging along. If you can find a 3/4 version they are even better, you can tow the house with you.

I have eyes on a local 2500s with 454/auto for dirt cheap. A few in SC with the same combo for cheap as well.

We like our 2005 Sequioa. It tows 5k easily, gets about 12-13mpg towing on trips where small mountains are involved (all of my tows), and is virtually silent on the road. Nice interior, reliable drivetrain. I like it for towing. Not as much balls as a GM 5.3/5.7, but the 4.7 is smooth as butter. Look at the 05-07 to get the extra speed on the tranny :)

As for the wife factor.....it's my wife's daily kid-hauler and she likes it fine.

For a straight-up tow rig I'd go with a Suburban/Tahoe. But with wife along for the ride and using for other stuff too, the Sequoia is a good compromise of towing ability and general niceness.

If I were buying gas, I'd get a 2500 Suburban. I wanted diesel, so I went with a 2500HD Silverado instead. The Allison is very nice as well.

I'm always shocked at how little conversion vans and class B RVs sell for.

That gas vs diesel argument should include what the OP is planning to drive per year. Me at a max of 4k miles a year can't even justify the buy in for a diesel and then the higher cost maintenance.

Strike - what are you thinking?

I will be towing ~3-4k a year.

I was looking for something I could purchase with some spare cash and sling some parts on for maintenance since I will be attending 3-6 events a year. That's why I bypassed on oil burners.

It would be awesome if Avalanches were in my price range. That would fit the pickup needs and add a tent for track side home for the wife needs.

So as I have posted before, I have a K1500 with the 6.5L Turbo Diesel. I think it's a very underrated engine. I know the 2500 Suburban was fitted with them, and they don't really command too much of a premium. I get around 16mpg when towing and have got upto 24mpg when cruising on the interstate at 70ish, so I think it outweighs the diesel VS gas thing pricing. I haven't really had to throw a whole lot of maintenance at it either, just change the oil and filters and that's it. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

Oh and the A/C in my '94 will freeze your ass off and not drop the mpg's at all.

Not sure what your price range is but this looks like a nice one. http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/4676328010.html

^^ What he said. I <3 my 6.5T Suburban 2500HD.

Avalanche 2500 could replace both a 2500 Suburban and your Dakota, and have the trackside tent accomodations you mentioned. I loved my Avalanche, and if I would have bought the 2500 in the first place I would have never felt the need to replace my 1500 with a diesel truck (and my wife loved the Avalanche, she HATES my Silverado, but I think that is mainly due to it being a dually). Keep searching, I have seen 2500s in the $6k range. I know you said you wanted to keep around $4k, but you could also get rid of the Dakota and offset some of the costs (purchase, and on going maintenance/insurance).

We talked about the Avalanche last night as it appears to be the best fit.

1500 versions are easily found in the price range I have. 2500 . . . eh not so much. I'm not in a rush.

singleslammer wrote: That gas vs diesel argument should include what the OP is planning to drive per year. Me at a max of 4k miles a year can't even justify the buy in for a diesel and then the higher cost maintenance. Strike - what are you thinking?

curtis73 slaps head

RESALE people. Buy a gas truck and watch it depreciate into oblivion. Buy a diesel truck, drive it for 100k, spill coffee on the seats, let the exhaust rust through, disregard the dents and rust, and then sell it for $500 less than you bought it.

Hands down, no exceptions, real world experience... diesel has almost nothing to do with expensive fuel (which doesn't matter because you burn way less fuel), maintenance (which is only slightly different than gas), or buy-in-cost. Diesels will put way more money back in your pocket from purchase to sale than any gas truck you can imagine.

If you can swing the buy-in cost, diesel is always a winner on cost to operate.

People who dislike diesel are bad at math. They are the same people who think they are saving the earth by buying a new Prius... with batteries produced in third world countries where the pollution goes unchecked.... then transported by ships burning 70 gallons of fuel per minute... then assembled with plastic parts that are made from petroleum.... then burn gasoline which is a far more inefficient fuel than diesel... Don't get me started on the anit-diesel hypocrisy. Oh, wait... I already started

long time burb owner. I kept a sheet of 1/2in or 5/8 plywood around for when I was doing truck stuff with the burb. I would toss the sheet of plywood in the back and have less worry about would I was putting in the back. Replace the plywood every couple of years as needed.

curtis73 wrote:

singleslammer wrote: That gas vs diesel argument should include what the OP is planning to drive per year. Me at a max of 4k miles a year can't even justify the buy in for a diesel and then the higher cost maintenance. Strike - what are you thinking?

*curtis73 slaps head* RESALE people. Buy a gas truck and watch it depreciate into oblivion. Buy a diesel truck, drive it for 100k, spill coffee on the seats, let the exhaust rust through, disregard the dents and rust, and then sell it for $500 less than you bought it. Hands down, no exceptions, real world experience... diesel has almost nothing to do with expensive fuel (which doesn't matter because you burn way less fuel), maintenance (which is only slightly different than gas), or buy-in-cost. Diesels will put way more money back in your pocket from purchase to sale than any gas truck you can imagine. If you can swing the buy-in cost, diesel is always a winner on cost to operate. People who dislike diesel are bad at math. They are the same people who think they are saving the earth by buying a new Prius... with batteries produced in third world countries where the pollution goes unchecked.... then transported by ships burning 70 gallons of fuel per minute... then assembled with plastic parts that are made from petroleum.... then burn gasoline which is a far more inefficient fuel than diesel... Don't get me started on the anit-diesel hypocrisy. Oh, wait... I already started

I replaced a diesel Silverado with a gas Suburban (like strike's it's an 8.1 liter 2500) and resale is a double edged sword. Yes, you get more for a diesel at the end, but you pay more up front. The gasser gets you less money when you sell (well, not so much an 8.1 liter Suburban) but it also costs less up front AND costs less to maintain, making TCO actually LOWER in my experience. And though it gets a little lower fuel mileage, the fuel costs less, too. Really, it's basically a wash between the two.

Tows 12k lbs, and does the 8500 30foot travel trailer with ease. In fact, it definitely has less problems with it than my old 6.5T, which actually ran pretty good:

And the newer Suburban is MUCH nicer place to spend time than the Silverado was, and is cheaper to buy in than a similar year 6.0 diesel Silverado.

I don't mind diesels. The resale on them are staggering in this area. Being I'm the type of guy that drives cars until they stop or I am forced to sell, I tend not to worry about resale value.

You did bring up a point:

curtis73 wrote: Buy a diesel truck, drive it for 100k, spill coffee on the seats, let the exhaust rust through, disregard the dents and rust, and then sell it for $500 less than you bought it.

With diesels, the buy-in seems to be 1/2 to 3x the price of gas trucks. And it comes with aforementioned dents, E36 M3ty interior, copious amounts of noises, and other truck neglect because owners know "it's a diesel".

Being that Mrs. Zero has a say and is big part of this purchase, trying to convince her spending up to 3x more $$$ on a diesel that looks ragged out is an exercise I want to avoid.

If she didn't want to accompany me to events, the non-AC'd Dakota would work just fine.