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Sonolin
Sonolin New Reader
7/30/21 10:57 p.m.

So, I've owned an FRS (86 platform) since it came out. I have always wanted more power (who doesn't?). I love the car at the track N/A but unfortunately due to a recent move have relatively little canyons/twisties near me, meaning my car basically sits in the garage until it comes track season.

This leads me to the problem of either boosting my car, getting a header, or selling it & moving on.

I really love my car, so I am hesitant to sell. But the lack of power I feel is really hampering my enjoyment of the car as late. I don't think a header will satisfy this craving (I already have a tune and closest e85 station is 1 hour+), so that leaves F/I.

There seems to be a lot of issues going F/I with this car - yes, I have done a ton of research and know about the popular supercharger offerings (Jackson Racing & Edelbrock being the top 2 for tracking). Of course, there are still people blowing engines/transmissions which at that point I consider a consumable (oh god where is this going lol) under tracking conditions. But the main issue is is it worth the extra cost, since I would be putting at least $7k in the powertrain not to mention the suspension & aero overhaul to keep it competitive in my local NASA class (I'd at least be in TT4 most likely TT3 and still wouldn't be nearly the best setup for that class unless I dump a ton of money). 

Thoughts? Do you think it is worth it to just sacrifice some/most track competitiveness to have more fun on the street? I'd be quite competitive in TT5 if I spend that money in aero & suspension instead, but I feel like my car would still have a similar problem of sitting around for most of the year.

Sonolin
Sonolin New Reader
7/30/21 10:58 p.m.

As per the selling point, s2ks are like what 25-30k at least these days? Which would make the most sense to upgrade. I'd love a camaro SS 1LE but those are 40k+ it seems these days as well. Damn used car market.... almost seems better to buy new if I go that option - an ND2 would be amazing but I'm really not a fan of driving with a rollbar on the street *shrug*

I also don't think these 2 four bangers would really solve my want of something faster during the down season, but they might be just enough to satisfy that.

I guess I could go with something FWD but I'm pretty allergic to that option at this point - already own a (not-hot) FWD hatch and, while nice, it doesn't offer nearly the same dynamics. Something AWD might work but I've never owned an AWD and not sure how much I'd enjoy the driving experience.

Common sense would be to just sell my car & buy a truck or SUV but f*** that...

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
7/30/21 11:48 p.m.

In reply to Sonolin :

Have you thought of changing directions?  One of the most expensive and labor intensive cars to own is a daily driver also used as a track car.  
    So keep your daily car as is and the money that you would spend to go just a little bit faster buy a car to go massively faster.  
     How?  Don't follow the herd. Buy a fast car that has a terrible resale value. 
     Try a Jaguar.  I like the old V12 but you can get newer,  much cheaper. Plus it's faster. Try a post Ford ownership when the reliability and quality went through the roof. Any model with an R in it is fast. Stripped of luxury it's even faster.  Get one with paint damage and cover the damage with decals, etc.  

Sonolin
Sonolin New Reader
7/31/21 12:03 a.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Not a bad idea. I have definitely considered getting another (third) car but I just don't see the point keeping my current car that won't be driven 99% of the time. So in that scenario I'd rather not be stuck with a jaguar or something but at least a muscle car or something that is more usable.

STM317
STM317 UberDork
7/31/21 7:49 a.m.

C5 ZO6? They'd give you the muscle you're looking for while keeping respectable level of track performance. They're lighter and cheaper than something like a 1LE too.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/31/21 8:13 a.m.

I actually sold an S2000 last year and bought a BRZ this year. I tracked both (once) and I was getting more enjoyment out of the BRZ than I did get out of the S2000, even though I've been wanting an S2000 for a decade. Well, at least when I was driving the BRZ and not sitting in it making brmbrm noises because I blew the berkeleying engine.

That said, I can't drive for toffee on the track so I am also seriously thinking about FI to make up for the lack of skill, but I'm waiting until I have the car together and a couple more days at the track under my belt.

From what I can tell the header mostly helps with the infamous torque dip and a good EL header can add a bit of power up top, but it's not going to turn the car into something that'd bother a 911 turbo at VIR. I think the header might still help if you're going supercharged and getting a custom tune as it still would improve gasflow through the engine, but I'm not sure how well it would work with one of the canned tunes that you can get with the JSRC or Edelbrock SC.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
7/31/21 10:15 a.m.
Sonolin said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Not a bad idea. I have definitely considered getting another (third) car but I just don't see the point keeping my current car that won't be driven 99% of the time. So in that scenario I'd rather not be stuck with a jaguar or something but at least a muscle car or something that is more usable.

A racer knows the trick to fast is light weight.  Watch a JaguarXKE  with a 258 cu in six beat a 427 Corvette.  It doesn't do it with horsepower because even a no budget limit six barely gets over 350 hp.  But the Jag is 1000 pounds lighter than the Corvette.  That's a 1000 less to slow down, a thousand ponds less to accelerate, and a thousand pounds less to corner. 
     The newer Jaguars are aluminum chassis. 500+ horsepower and yes they have OBD2   You want to kick the power up another 100+ horsepower. Buy the supercharger pulley kit and just spin the super charger a little faster. 
 Want another 10% more?  Buy the bigger injectors and use E85.   Actually you might get 15% power gain or more and E85 is many dollars cheaper than racing gas. In fact the racing version of E85 is about $3.00 a gallon. 
 Jaguar's have always been a bargain. They depreciate like gang busters because the people attracted to them always want the next flashy thing.  
  Yet they cost less to race because of the basic quality of the mechanical stuff.    I raced my Jaguar for over 4 decades and never had anything blow up or break. Won a lot of races too.  
   Don't buy one if you get upset if the power seat switch breaks or the A/C  is finicky. It may not have the gee whiz switchers technology of a BMW but BMW doesn't put that stuff in their race cars. 
The hundreds of Millions of dollars Ford spent on Jaguar is reflected in the quality of the components. Yeh,  a lot of stuff is right out of Fords parts bins but not the engines or suspension. The stuff that makes a car hold up on the race track. 
       Don't buy one at the dealers or most private party.  Buy one parked behind a garage with a flat tire, dented fender,. or at the insurance auctions.  Buy a theft recovery. Or one with paint damage. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/31/21 10:21 a.m.

Harrop > Edelbrock

 

I would budget more like $10k to properly put forced induction on your car. 

 

 

 

 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/31/21 10:24 a.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

You know you don't have to bring up Jaguars in every single thread on the forum, especially when it's completely unrelated.

Olemiss540
Olemiss540 HalfDork
7/31/21 10:28 a.m.

I'd say buy a vette, camaro, mustang, etc. Pull the ttop on a vette when you are cruising around the street and tires and brakes when you want to slap that ass on track. Or maybe swap your current cars for a DD tow rig and a racecar for a fun detour. You can get some crazy fun in something like a Panoz for CHEAP and it will be insanely fast out of the box while having the safety equipment to keep you noggin safe. Do you like to tinker/wrench?

Last thing you want to do is aftermarket FI on a track car. Been down that rabbit hole and barely made it out alive. Only thing I could imagine would be worse would be buying a British car for lapping.....

 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
7/31/21 10:29 a.m.

z31maniac said:

In reply to frenchyd :

You know you don't have to bring up Jaguars in every single thread on the forum, especially when it's completely unrelated.

Adding lightness, adds speed.  He know Jags, he uses Jags as an example. 

Suggests them as an option for racing (which he has a lot of experience with).

I see no issue here.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/31/21 10:40 a.m.

In reply to aircooled :

Because the question was about supercharging his existing car. And he tends to bring up Jags in every thread, whether someone asks about them or not.

wspohn
wspohn SuperDork
7/31/21 10:41 a.m.

BRZ and FRS have great results from turbo but on a car with significant miles on it you always risk negative consequences - rings stop sealing etc.

I love turbos - ran a Fiero GT that I more than doubled the power of for many years and today run a Solstice GXP with an extra 120 or so bhp the same way.

But I also wouldn't recommend tracking your daily driver - that often doesn't work out well.

parker
parker Reader
7/31/21 10:46 a.m.

Used Cayman?  Financially, adding FI to the 86 doesn't make sense.  You'll never get your money back and you're adding a lot of stress to the engine and tranny.  If you want to do it, go for it.  Just don't think about the money.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
7/31/21 10:53 a.m.
z31maniac said:

In reply to frenchyd :

You know you don't have to bring up Jaguars in every single thread on the forum, especially when it's completely unrelated.

If you want to race why not start with a bargain?   You may prefer to spend your money on whatever the herd does, but then you're part of the herd. 
  

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
7/31/21 10:58 a.m.
z31maniac said:

In reply to aircooled :

Because the question was about supercharging his existing car. And he tends to bring up Jags in every thread, whether someone asks about them or not.

Supercharging his existing car to go racing.  I said no. Gave a valid reason and suggested another coarse of action.  
    I've tried American cars turned into racers. They are way too expensive to get competitive and reliable. 
   Have you raced a Jaguar?  

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/31/21 11:01 a.m.
frenchyd said:
z31maniac said:

In reply to aircooled :

Because the question was about supercharging his existing car. And he tends to bring up Jags in every thread, whether someone asks about them or not.

Supercharging his existing car to go racing.  I said no. Gave a valid reason and suggested another coarse of action.  
    I've tried American cars turned into racers. They are way too expensive to get competitive and reliable. 
   Have you raced a Jaguar?  

Well it's not an American car, for one. It's literally assembled in Japan.

No I haven't and I don't care too. I guess I'm the only that gets annoyed by it, so I'll bow out.

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter)
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
7/31/21 11:35 a.m.

Just my opinion but aftermarket turbo on a track car is a big mistake unless you have wads of cash (that you'll never get back) and days of time to troubleshoot issues. I went down that path with a Miata.  The car got faster, when it wasn't overheated or broken. I got slower as a driver. Spend the money on sticky tires, suspension upgrades if needed, and coaching. 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
7/31/21 11:40 a.m.
parker said:

Used Cayman?  Financially, adding FI to the 86 doesn't make sense.  You'll never get your money back and you're adding a lot of stress to the engine and tranny.  If you want to do it, go for it.  Just don't think about the money.

Well said. Sometimes people just want to do something. Money isn't the priority.  I know I forget that sometimes. 

Sonolin
Sonolin New Reader
7/31/21 1:59 p.m.

Sounds like the consensus is it is a bad idea. Thanks for that and I sorta agree which is why I made this thread. I definitely don't need to do something, and maybe a header would satisfy those cravings.

I don't think the cayman is a wise choice. If I had to replace the engine on one of those I could've spent all that money to go faster in my current car instead. Porsche engines arent cheap.

I think c5 z06 makes the most sense if I were to upgrade. I could even make it into a crazy fast race car in the future. Only issue is Ive read of a lot of cooling issues and brake issues - seems like it would need some money to get setup properly and doesnt have the new car safety.... but I guess Im kinda looking for thrill more anyway. Definitely a good option

Truck + race car has been what I have really been saving for all this time, but I feel like Id still want my race car to be streetable... which I guess is a little silly. Would make travelling to out of state tracks soooo much easier. I feel like either way Im going to end up with a (cheap) truck eventually since it does make the most semse for a DD here and is multipurpose.

And I hear you on slow car fast frenchy - that is why I do love my car so much at the track. I dont think selling it for another slow car fast is going to satisfy my cravings on the street.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/31/21 2:35 p.m.

In reply to Sonolin :

Truck and trailer and keeping the 86 would be good, and then allow you to run E85 and keep your track car streetable.

Quality header + E85 = 25-30whp, eliminates the tq dip, and really fattens up the midrange.

Is also relatively easy to pull 100-150lbs out of the car without removing the AC or what little sound deadening is there.

30 hp and 150lbs less would be quite a noticeable difference without the headaches of tracking a car with forced induction.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/31/21 2:39 p.m.

For example, just a lightweight battery, rear seat delete and removing the spare and associated tools pulls about 75-80 lbs out of the car.

Then you can go with AP Sprint brakes, lighter wheels, etc.

Sonolin
Sonolin New Reader
7/31/21 3:28 p.m.

Yea I'm leaning that route. I think I might just end up doing header & F/F tune (so I can run pump near home and e85 at track - thankfully there are e85 pumps nearish to the tracks here) and then re-evaluate.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/31/21 3:45 p.m.

In reply to Sonolin :

JDL 4-2-1 header and contact Zach at Counter Space Garage for the Flex Fuel kit and tune. He's pretty much the best tuner for this platform.

 

You can also get a hold of Kevin Ket at Atlanta Speed Company for that stuff and just about any other parts you need.

Sonolin
Sonolin New Reader
7/31/21 4:27 p.m.

New plan... this looks extremely enticing: https://kpower.industries/blogs/news/kpower-ft86-swap-faqs

I will likely wait on doing the swap for some time but damn that sounds nice. Retains stock trans, AC and electronics work - just sounds like a more reliable way for more power.

 

EDIT: And yea in the meantime Ill probably be going with the JDL EL seems to make the most sense for now.

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