Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/13/20 10:15 p.m.

My wife was away for a week, so I was driving her daily. This is the 7/8 scale minivan, not the CX5 SUV.
2.5 with the 5  speed auto. At a steady throttle at about 40 mph it has an intermittent torque converter shudder. The fluid is full, and was changed when we bought it two years and about 10,000 miles ago. Seems to be getting worse.
Any comments or suggestions?

 

 

 

 

 

dj06482 (Forum Supporter)
dj06482 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
11/13/20 10:20 p.m.

The Odyssey with the 6spd auto has a similar issue, the solution in that case is a transmission reflash to newer code and draining/filling the transmission fluid three times (with highway driving in between each drain/fill). Try poking around on a Mazda-specific board to see if there's a similar known issue/solution.

A single drain/fill only does so much because of all the fluid that's trapped in the torque  converter.

Ford used to have that problem. The solution was Lubeguard Instant Shudder Fix. It is a snake oil that actually worked as advertized. 

I would do some reading before trying that.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/14/20 9:17 a.m.

Came here to say Shudder Fix.  It's the only snake oil I can think of that not only works but seems to have zero side effects.

I forget if your 5 has a pan or just a drain plug.  If it has a pan, pull it off for a drain/fill.  Before putting the pan back on, squeeze a tube of that glorious goo in the corner of the pan.  It's thick and syrupy, so putting it in the fill means it will spend a very long time actually getting to where it needs to get.

If you don't have a pan, just put it in the fill first so the 4-5 quarts of ATF you put in will rinse as much down as possible.

iceracer
iceracer MegaDork
11/14/20 12:05 p.m.

How about the convertor clutch not engaging properly ?

I assume it has one.

pirate
pirate HalfDork
11/14/20 2:07 p.m.

I had a had A Ford Taurus business car with about 150K mileage. Trans started to shudder and not want to shift property. Took it to auto shop we use and he didn't advise fluid change and said trans was on the edge of going out and said he would just try to get rid of the car. Went to parts store and they recommended Dr Tranny Shudder Eliminator. Was very skeptical but had nothing to lose. Put it in and within 100 or so miles shudder was gone. Drove it for another 20 K miles before it was totaled in an accident. Worked for me your mileage may vary.

https://www.amazon.com/Lubegard-19610-Tranny-Instant-Shudder/dp/B00337DUEU

 

iceracer
iceracer MegaDork
11/14/20 5:44 p.m.

Ah, just like when the clutches in the  Trak Lok shudder.

A little slippery stuff fixes it.

Or could be the pressures are down and don't clamp the clutches enough.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/15/20 5:42 p.m.
iceracer said:

Ah, just like when the clutches in the  Trak Lok shudder.

A little slippery stuff fixes it.

Or could be the pressures are down and don't clamp the clutches enough.

Yes, could be a solenoid or valve body issue not letting proper pressure get to the TCC.  I guess the question is, do you want the $15 can't-hurt-to-try fix, or the $4000 rebuilt transmission fix?

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/15/20 5:53 p.m.

Although... I'm curious about the 5-speed.

Are you sure it's not a 6 speed?  Starting with the very first KE in 2012, they all got the FS6A-EL.

The only FS5A-EL in 2014 (that I know of) was used in the 3s

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/15/20 5:57 p.m.
eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
11/16/20 9:28 a.m.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Came here to say Shudder Fix.  It's the only snake oil I can think of that not only works but seems to have zero side effects.

I forget if your 5 has a pan or just a drain plug.  If it has a pan, pull it off for a drain/fill.  Before putting the pan back on, squeeze a tube of that glorious goo in the corner of the pan.  It's thick and syrupy, so putting it in the fill means it will spend a very long time actually getting to where it needs to get.

If you don't have a pan, just put it in the fill first so the 4-5 quarts of ATF you put in will rinse as much down as possible.

Mazda5 has a drain plug.  My 2012 is a 5 speed auto, IIRC.  I just changed the fluid about a week ago.  It recommends a cycle of drain, fill, run engine, and shift through the gears, then repeat twice, in order to dilute the fluid in the torque convertor.  You'll be able to drain around 3 quarts or so at a time, though I think it holds a total of 6-7 quarts.

 

Edit:  Oh yeah, when refilling, fill slowly - it takes a while for the fluid to make it into the pan.  I spilled trans fluid all over the back of the engine compartment thinking i could just pretty much dump the same amount in as I drained.

iceracer
iceracer MegaDork
11/16/20 10:51 a.m.

In the old days, torque convertors had a drain plug.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/16/20 4:03 p.m.

In reply to iceracer :

You know,Ford did this up through the mid 2000s.  I wonder if there is enough engineering DNA in his FS6A (which is an evolution of an FS5A... which is an evolution of an FS4A, which is just a renamed Ford 4F27E) that it has a drain plug.  Worth a look.

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
12/19/20 10:43 a.m.

While I was waiting for a day off, my wife took it to one of the local shops. After she said the word transmission, they sent her to a transmission shop. They pulled a the code, which has been lost, then sent her to the dealer.

The dealer said the code was a body control module, and that it needs a transmission. That's where I found out about all of this. I'm highly skeptical of the idea of it needing a transmission replacement.

The Mazda five is a Mazda three platform with a van body. The three is known for having transmission control module problems. My plan, is to do a series of drain and fills on the transmission, then add some of the shudder stop additive. If it keeps doing this, then I'll look at changing out the module.

One question, what transmission fluid should I be putting in this?

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise UltraDork
12/19/20 11:13 a.m.

Our 12 mazda5 AT bought new, I have done 30k mile trans change intervals,  with Valvoline max life which is M5 compatible 

 

130k miles - 0 problems. No shudder 

 

https://mazdas247.com/forum/index.php?threads/2012-mazda-5-transmission-fluid-simple-question.123861867/

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/20/20 8:33 a.m.
iceracer said:

Ah, just like when the clutches in the  Trak Lok shudder.

A little slippery stuff fixes it.

Or could be the pressures are down and don't clamp the clutches enough.

The issue generally is that the trans controllers deliberately slip the TCC for various reasons.  NVH, driving feel etc.  If the fluid is not properly slippery, or the TCC clutches are grabby, you get a shudder.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/20/20 8:37 a.m.
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:

While I was waiting for a day off, my wife took it to one of the local shops. After she said the word transmission, they sent her to a transmission shop. They pulled a the code, which has been lost, then sent her to the dealer.

The dealer said the code was a body control module, and that it needs a transmission. That's where I found out about all of this. I'm highly skeptical of the idea of it needing a transmission replacement.

The Mazda five is a Mazda three platform with a van body. The three is known for having transmission control module problems. My plan, is to do a series of drain and fills on the transmission, then add some of the shudder stop additive. If it keeps doing this, then I'll look at changing out the module.

One question, what transmission fluid should I be putting in this?

If the TCM has issues, it won't present like this.  I have done a few, and to be honest they were so long ago that I don't even remember what the issues were, but the vans arrived on tow trucks, not under their own power.

TCC shudder problems can be fixed 90% of the time with fluid, the rest of the time they need a reflash.

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
12/20/20 8:42 a.m.

Encouraged by the replies. I'll hit the flaps in a little while. 

kazoospec
kazoospec UberDork
12/20/20 9:54 a.m.

Dropping a comment here just to keep my eye on the thread.  PO on our 2012 did the 3 part fill/drain procedure at 45K.  We're at about 70k now (we don't put a lot of miles on our vehicles) and I was wondering about updating it.  My mechanic refused to do it because "Mazda doesn't recommend it".  It seemed like there really was no consensus on "da innanets" about even whether to do it . . . let alone what fluid to use.   We've had NO trans issues with ours (knock on wood), but I'm an "ounce of prevention > pound of cure" guy when it comes to automatic transmissions.  After finding a number of posts about how the fluid change actually created problems for some, I punted it down the road to 100K.  

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
12/20/20 2:23 p.m.

Finished a drain and fill x2, using the Valvoline Max Life, and adding a tube of shudder stop on the second. I would have done three, but it's raining. 
 

Driven about 10 miles, seems like it's fine. It was intermittent enough that I won't be sure for a few days, but I think it's good. 
 

I try to avoid giving bad reviews, but if this is all it needed, I might make an exception for the dealership service department. 

Normally, I don't drive this car, but I drove it about 15 miles today. Nothing abnormal that I could detect.

berkeleying dealer.

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