Toyobaru to become Toyobmw???

https://autos.yahoo.com/news/subaru-may-lose-brz-toyota-turns-bmw-future-103010199.html

I hate this.

Give Toyota some credit for realizing that they could never build a credible performance vehicle without:

1) making up three entirely new brands (Lexus, Scion, and now "F")

2) begging other car companies for help (Subaru, BMW), and

3) hiring rednecks to drive a Chrysler with Toyota badges around in a circle on TV every weekend, thus hypnotizing America into continuing to buy some of the most dangerous and mediocre vehicles ever produced.

However, of all these stunts, I think the collaboration with BMW is perhaps the least likely to actually bear fruit. The American public tolerate mediocre engineering when it comes from Germany (vacuum-operated flaps inside the muffler, five-cylinder / 60hp-per-liter motors, miniature windshield wipers in cutesy locations, etc.), but whether they'll accept things on the "All-New 2015 Lexus Scion F-86 Z Rallye 1.8 Litre" is another question entirely.

Interesting ...

They did just fine on the mkiv supra and lfa with no help from anybody.

carbon wrote: They did just fine on the mkiv supra and lfa with no help from anybody.

I like both of those cars; that I can admit. We're talking about the extreme top stratum of what they make, though.

Hmm. Better hurry up and buy a BRZ, then.

Doubt it, the prime directive of the frisbee project was to make it cheap, to ensure sales, and last I heard its still hard to get a new one under MSRP. BMW ain't cheap.

b13990 wrote: The American public tolerate mediocre engineering when it comes from Germany (vacuum-operated flaps inside the muffler, five-cylinder / 60hp-per-liter motors, miniature windshield wipers in cutesy locations, etc.),

Hey now. I'll have you know that Pontiac did the vacuum actuated muffler thing long before some German engineer spent far too long making an elegantly intricate mechanism to do what anybody else would do far more simply, and my 5cyl German engine makes about 25hp/l, WAY WAY LESS than 60hp/l.

People looove swapping 60hp/liter chevy motors into things.

Not sure there is a problem here. Manufacturer's have been sharing platforms and technology for years and will likely do even more in the years to come. Doesn't mean the BRZ is going away. I am for anything that creates more interesting, exciting and advanced vehicles. There are no slouches with Toyota, BMW and Subaru. All are capable of building some great vehicles either together or separate.

My stupid phone won't let me read the article but I'd take a Frisbee with a BMW I6

Somewhere, somebody who put a 2JZ into a 325e is saying "I did it first suckas"

(People who like 2JZ engines never end words with -er, they use -a)

notice they said that Toyota wants to put a sports car beneath the 86 and one above it.. might there be a 4th generation of MR2 coming out?

b13990 wrote: some of the most dangerous and mediocre vehicles ever produced.

While I'll fully agree that most of toyota's regular car line are "mediocre" in terms of performance, appearance, and most other things other than "economy"...and I'd never buy one...

1. Toyota trucks (at least historically) are quite the opposite of "Mediocre." If I'm doing a cross-Africa safari or something, I'll take a land cruiser, 4Runner, or even Sequoia long before I'll take any other kind of 4x4 SUV out there. Hell, there's a reason that every third-world country with nasty terrain (Afghanistan, most of Africa, etc) is chock-full of Toyota Hilux pickups, and not full of Jeep Wranglers. I've owned Jeeps, and I've owned Toyotas. The Toyotas are better in every single respect aside from hardcore rock-crawling where the IFS isn't as capable. Toyota is one of the few brands that still builds a real truck-based SUV and not a big station wagon on 20" wheels like most other brands have gone to.

2. Curious, what about Toyotas in general is "dangerous" apart from maybe the gas pedal thing which is hardly a problem that ONLY Toyota has had over the years?

mad_machine wrote: notice they said that Toyota wants to put a sports car beneath the 86 and one above it.. might there be a 4th generation of MR2 coming out?

Yeah, that'll be interesting. I didn't think there was much room below a Frisbee, but maybe so...

In reply to irish44j:

Meh. Don't feed the troll.

b13990 wrote:

carbon wrote: They did just fine on the mkiv supra and lfa with no help from anybody.

I like both of those cars; that I can admit. We're talking about the extreme top stratum of what they make, though.

keep in mind they don't make a supra anymore and any potential "supra" they show is some kind of a supercar. They are completely incapable of producing an affordable GT.

Maybe they are partnering with BMW because they can make a twin turbo i6 rwd GT in the 300s hp at $40,000. All strangely identical to the Supra.

This is bad news? Toyota's not going to change the Toyobaru much, and definitely not for the worse. It's the aftermarket's darling. They're probably making decent sales on just test bed & demo cars for the aftermarket companies.

Making the FT-1 is great news. I hope it gets a TT I6 or the V8 from the ISF. There's a potential midlife crisis car for me when it depreciates.

I can't really see how Toyota partnering with the company who makes some of the finest engines, chassis dynamics and all-around awesome sports sedans in the world could possibly be a bad thing. Unless you are Subaru.

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

Because there aren't enough vowels to properly pronounce Toyobmw.

Does anybody else think that Fiat needs to join the effort too?

Axis-powered sports coupe?

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I can't really see how Toyota partnering with the company who makes some of the finest engines, chassis dynamics and all-around awesome sports sedans in the world could possibly be a bad thing. Unless you are Subaru.

I think it's a bad thing because it's a sign it's not going to be affordable for people who actually like Supras, GT86, MR2, and cars like that. Toyota needs to build their own stuff.

I would rather they partner with Hyundai and build a turbo Genesis clone and use higher quality Toyota parts for things like the transmission. Then you might have a $30k-$40k car than a $60k-$100k car.

Building a super expensive car is dumb for them when they have Lexus and cars like that already.

Meanwhile Nissan is going to release the next Z or Mazda is going to release the next RX8 for $30k-$40k or less then no enthusiast and no fan of Asian cars will care about a $60k Toyota. It's spitting in the face of their enthusiasts IMO if they make an expensive car like that. Meanwhile during all this KIA has a concept for an inexpensive turbo GT that looks great and Honda mulls bringing over their mid engine S kei car. Did you know that the Hyundai Genesis V6 matches 0-60 and 1/4 mile times with the Nismo 370Z? Toyota needs to realize their are an Asian car company, they lost their way a while ago and the GT86 was a hope for the return to it.

But, but, but, Hyundai scored higher than Toyota in the JD power initial quality study!!!! That means they make better cars! Because, you know, how a car gets through the first 90 days has is an incredibly accurate measure of what it's lifespan will be. (We really need a sarcasm emoticon...)

bravenrace wrote: But, but, but, Hyundai scored higher than Toyota in the JD power initial quality study!!!! That means they make better cars! Because, you know, how a car gets through the first 90 days has is an incredibly accurate measure of what it's lifespan will be. (We really need a sarcasm emoticon...)

I see a lot more $30k Hyundai Genesis on the streets than $60k Lexus. That is how you build a name selling performance cars. By actually selling cars.

Nobody wants a $60k BMW-Toyota Supra. 370Z sales have been seriously slumping because it's behind the Genesis, Mustang, Camaro, STI, etc at the same price point or more. Nobody is going to want to buy a Toyota equivalent for double the price again. And don't say "i will" because no, you wouldn't. It makes no sense. Also BMWs are not known for long term reliability and I havn't been hearing of problems with new Hyundais. Ironically I HAVE with Toyotas with that massive lawsuit and everything.