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AxeHealey
AxeHealey GRM+ Memberand Dork
1/24/21 9:17 a.m.

Signed up. Hope it happens. 

Oldboy Speedwell
Oldboy Speedwell New Reader
1/24/21 9:30 a.m.

I'm just stoked that they are making a proper 3dr hot hatch (thanks to the insistence of Tommi Mäkinen) because that bodyform is nearly extinct.

 

Throwback tribute livery looks good!

 

 

Size comparison next to another forbidden fruit hatch we never got...

 

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/24/21 4:21 p.m.
rslifkin said:
Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

ABS-controlled diff action is better than LSDs when done right, especially in a front driver where an LSD destroys turn-in.

The difference is, LSDs act all the time, while "e-diffs" only act when necessary.  BUT, they can also act proactively, helping turn-in.  Thus the "when done right" part.

I once thought as you did.  Then I joined the dark side.  (We have cheeseburgers!)

I'm gonna disagree.  E-diffs are a lot better than nothing, but they can be very hard on brakes, and on very slippery surfaces, a real LSD works better.  The constant brake grabbing hurts the ability to produce effective forward motion at that point. 

As far as turn-in, you can have an LSD with no preload, so it acts open during decel and won't hurt turn in.  But it'll start to tighten up as you apply throttle. 

Yeah, I'm with you.The primary place I want an LSD is on slippery surfaces, and e-LSDs don't improve traction the way an actual LSD does. The GTI (which has a Haldex-style LSD, I believe), has no turn-in issues other than the factory understeer dialed in that I haven't dialed out via a larger rear swaybar (yet). 

e-LSD may have arguable benefits vs. real LSD on grippy surfaces or regular daily driving stuff, but that's not where I need LSD ;)

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
1/24/21 4:54 p.m.

We'll just have to have our differing opinions smiley

 

Extremely slippery conditions is exactly where I prefer an open diff.  With a limited slip, you have no ability to turn because the diff's preload is going to be stronger than the tires' traction.  That, and a limited slip mostly just guarantees that both tires will be spinning, so you lose effective steering.

rslifkin
rslifkin UberDork
1/24/21 4:58 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Extremely slippery conditions is exactly where I prefer an open diff.  With a limited slip, you have no ability to turn because the diff's preload is going to be stronger than the tires' traction.  That, and a limited slip mostly just guarantees that both tires will be spinning, so you lose effective steering.

To some degree, that's why I have the un-popular opinion that FWD cars are absolutely awful in the snow and I refuse to DD one for winter. 

goingnowherefast
goingnowherefast Reader
1/24/21 9:17 p.m.
MrChaos said:

Also we wont get a yaris, it will be the GR Drivetrain in the Corolla Hatchback at best.

That's actually better, IMHO. 

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

ABS-controlled diff action is better than LSDs when done right, especially in a front driver where an LSD destroys turn-in.

 

The difference is, LSDs act all the time, while "e-diffs" only act when necessary.  BUT, they can also act proactively, helping turn-in.  Thus the "when done right" part.

Going to also disagree with you. The "e-diffs" that mimic real LSD's don't have the biggest advantage of modern LSD's which is real torque vectoring. Electronically controlled mechanical LSD's found in cars like the Honda Civic Type R, or Hyundai Veloster N have all the benefits of a real-time torque vectoring LSD with none of the drawbacks. Meaning, the differential can control lock-up depending on the driving condition and can unlock during times like hard braking. There's no replacement for a real LSD, that's what all of the motorsports and engineering world has figured out. 

pinchvalve (Forum Supporter)
pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/25/21 10:36 a.m.

Compared to the FiST, it has more power and AWD and its a 2-door. I'd rock it.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
1/25/21 11:31 a.m.

I don't care for hatchbacks,  but I'd rock that thing too.

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 PowerDork
1/25/21 2:01 p.m.

I'm sure we'll get some watered down non-sense in a Corolla sedan and not even a hatch. 

As others have said dealers will mark these up, they'll sit on the showroom floor because no one wants to finance a $45k Corolla, Toyota will kill it after a two year production run, and we'll continue to get T[u]RD CUVs instead. 

I'm also here to remind you that Hyundai makes a great 3/4dr hatch with a turbo and lots of power. 

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
1/25/21 2:31 p.m.

This thread has turned into an example of why manufacturers won't give us a car with a proper limited slip differential

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
1/25/21 2:32 p.m.

In reply to goingnowherefast :

Well, now we're getting into interesting subtleties...  If it is electronically controlled, that eliminates the need for preload, which is the whole bad thing to avoid in the first place because that is what nukes turn in.  And with no preload, it isn't a limited slip, except in what the angles on the gears or the drive plates offer, and in that sense all bevel gear differentials, even open ones, will "lock" under load due to internal friction as the gears thrust into the diff case.  (NSU tried a spur gear based differential for a TRULY open unit.  From reports, it was almost undrivable)

I don't see how any clutch pack diff can do torque vectoring.  That would require something with anticlutches, to overdrive the outside wheel.  Or a non-diff with drive to the axles entirely through controlled clutch packs, like how some transverse AWD rears work.  Either way, I am curious what is going on on there.  (E-diffs would do this with less complexity though smiley )

 

Motorsports with "real LSD" only use them because rules don't allow active diffs.

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
1/25/21 3:19 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Wait you realize that active deaths aren't merely e-diffs correct? 

An active diff uses wheel speed sensors to program and control a torsion or clutch type differential, some of them even take into accountability compression and rebound rates that are being sensed and provided from suspension. 

goingnowherefast
goingnowherefast Reader
1/25/21 3:43 p.m.

Just so we're all on the same page: 

 

"e-diffs" - These systems use the brakes to "mimic" an LSD in cars that have an open differential. This system can be found on cars like the Fiesta ST or US Focus ST. 

"Electronically controlled mechanical LSD" - These systems use a combination of sensors to control the lock-up and enables real-time torque vectoring from wheel to wheel. These systems, like found in the CTR, Veloster N, and MK7 GTI are really the best of both worlds with no drawback. 

CyberEric
CyberEric Dork
1/25/21 6:49 p.m.

In reply to goingnowherefast :

Thank you for that.

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