In reply to Berck :
Ok Accidents do happen. But I'm glad you haven't been stranded.
I've been thinking about what I would do rather than drive to and from the track.
I just checked and there are a few Trailblazers/ Envoys selling around $1000. I'd buy a decent one of those. They have plenty of power to pull a 3000 pound car and a 1000 pound trailer.
Now my advantage is I've built plenty of trailers. I don't have to buy someone's old one and fix it up.
Thousands of people drive their cars to and from track days. Given how utterly reliable Miatas are, I wouldn't give it a second thought.
Here is a picture of my daily driver Miata race car from the 90s. I'd do this again in a heartbeat.
OK. It's fun to go to famous tracks, Watkins Glen, Daytona, Mid Ohio, Atlanta, Sebring, Elkart Lake, Indy speedway, Laguna Seca, etc. Plan a bucket list and go.
I'd only do it if the car was on a trailer. Others may want to Iron Man it.
I'd wager your $1,000 Chevy tow vehicle is 10X more likely to leave you stranded than a track Miata. But this thread is specifically about a $10k street-legal track car to drive to/from the track, and occasionally to work.
You're right. I made my suggestions. No sense going off on a tangent.
If I had $10K to spend, i'd spend it on this MIATA. Lots of recent work done, all the right upgrades to drive to the track and have fun.
frenchyd said:In reply to Berck :
Thank you for that. I haven't raced a Miata but at those costs and maintenance I'd be looking for something else. What is the going price for a good engine? Nothing modified just a decent junkyard find? What about a gearbox?
It's well over 7 hours to my favorite track and frankly I'd worry about failure on the track that would prevent me from driving home. While there are 2 closer tracks. Blackhawk 6 hours and Brainerd 3 hours. I don't enjoy them as well.
Almost everything on his list was "Track prep" seats/harnesses/new brakes/new tires/etc. 300k mile wheel bearings failing after a track day is not surprising, and you can buy aftermarket ones that will last years under OP's assumed use case.
Then there are the other benefits of a low hp, low weight car:
- Very easy on fuel. I could run an entire day at the track on one tank of fuel. There was a gas station about 2 miles away from the track. I would stop fill up there, run all day, stop fill up there, drive home.
- Very easy on tires
- Very easy on brakes
There is a reason these are the most popular track car in America vs a budget 40 year old Jaguar.
In reply to pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) :
I had the link to that exact listing copied and ready to share. Looks like a primo candidate.
In reply to pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) :
The only thing that seems to be missing is a race seat and harness for the passenger side. If you have an instructor, most organizations need equal type of seats and belts for both driver and passenger. Other than that, this Miata looks very interesting (and is eligible for PA classic registration)
In reply to z31maniac :
The wheel bearings on my Black Jack were probably 1958 originals replaced not because it had sat outside for a decade but because they are a common bearing and only a few bucks.
In all that racing I did from 1975 on they never wore out or loosened up. They are simply over built.
I never wore out a set of race tires either I used Hoosiers , Goodyears and Dunlops. And the worst I ever got was 3 seasons and I'd replace them because they were too hard.
Same with brake pads. I used Ferodo DS 11's and bought them on a sale for real cheap. Other Jag drivers would come to me and beg for my cast offs Theirs wore out halfway through the weekend and they'd get a set of 50% used Would last them two more weekends. Plus I was always out braking the competition.
My point is just because the Corvette and Camaro guys wear out tires and brakes quickly doesn't mean I did.
I did pretty well. But most of all I had fun very much on the cheap.
Finally the last XJS were made in 1997. So you can buy one 25 years old and chances are it will be still in very presentable condition.
Jeff and I are having a good time, Erick too when he has time. It's taking a lot longer than it normally does. Simply because we have a hard time getting free of our wives. But it's going to be nice.
ps when the Jag goes down for the challenge I guess we'll see the relative performance between a Jaguar and a Miata. Hopefully I'll have time to build a trailer rather than use a U Haul.
In reply to Nitroracer (Forum Supporter) :
2005 Mustang GT, one owner and long time GRM'er who unexpectedly passed away in 2021. Located in Warren Robins, GA so a rust free example. $8k Should be perfectly turn-key for getting on a track!
That Miata looks like a nice combination of street/track, assuming you're small enough to fit in an NB. That seat/rollbar combination is probably only good for a fairly short person. I had to bolt an aluminum seat to the floor (and massage the transmission tunnel with a sledge hammer to get it to fit) so that I could get low enough to get my helmet 2" below the broomstick, but I'm 6'2". But, looks like a good deal for what it is. Agreed that you should do something about the passenger seat if you want to ride with an instructor, even if the group you're running with doesn't require it. I instructed in a Fiata where the student had a harness, race seat and HANS, but left me with a passenger seat and 3-point. It's not a nice feeling from that side of the car.
A thing to consider: leave the stock seat belt when you add the harness. Getting unbelted/re-belted to hop out and buy fuel can be annoying.
car was $5300, suspension $1200 (coilovers/rear sway bar), tires are $550 a season, brakes are $300 a season. Comfort, convenience and 37mpg to and from tracks with plenty of room to carry all you need to camp and play for the weekend. You could go with an older generation and save a couple grand off the top.
Nitroracer (Forum Supporter) said:If you had $10k in today's market to buy or build a track focused car how would you go about it?
I have the itch to get back on a road course and I'm currently shopping around for the best way to spend my money. As we all know, it doesn't seem to go as far as it used to, and the things I love from the 90s are all more than 20 years old now. My last track car was a 94' Integra GS-R and I loved it, but unfortunately it is no longer in my driveway. Having the highest horsepower doesn't matter to me, 200ish seems to be plenty for what I like to do, but a touch more torque than the old Honda might be nice for climbing hills. I'm open to front or rear wheel drive, not so much interested in all wheel drive. If I can find a car someone else has already built that is a option near the top end, with some money left over to refresh maintenance items. Lower down on the buy in allows me to have a car to build over a few months which I enjoy as well. I would like to be able to drive it on the street and not trailer it everywhere, or take it to work on a nice day. It certainly doesn't have to be a comfortable daily. I have a 1.6L Miata in the garage right now, but it would need some work to be a track toy, and frankly I think it might be a bit too slow for what I'm up against in 2022. I would rather see it go to someone else as a fun street car.
Give me your ideas!
Quoting the OP with some bolded parts. Tons of <150hp suggestions so far.
Mustang
E46/E90/BMW
350Z
Boxster
8th gen Civic Si
Best suggestions for a 200hp+ track car that will do the job without any major upgrades needed in that price range imo. Consumables will be high with some, but that's the price you pay for higher horsepower/weight on track.
Genesis Coupe? I always forget those exist but I've seen them at track days
Lots of suggestions here thanks everyone! A couple general things I want to comment on.
I didn't mention it, but I do have a truck and trailer to make outings easier, but I would prefer not to have a car I can't take for a test drive on local streets. I'd hate to book a track day and find a small problem I could have already fixed with a trip around the block at home. The lighter the car the better, since I'm only using a midsize truck but generally the suggestions here all fall into that under 3500lb category anyway.
Convertibles and safety legality in general - Once a proper roll bar has been added, is a hard top also required? I'm looking at HPDE type events, lower level track days and weekends. A hardtop for an NA/NB Miata is fetching double what it once did, NCs are hard to find, and I've never looked for one on a Boxster but I know they exist. Almost makes me want to go for a hardtop platform to start with, but some of the options here are hard to overlook.
NA Miata - Using the car I currently have would have me spending roughly $5+k to bring it up to snuff for track use. Part of the idea here was to see what other options I have for similar money assuming I sell the car and bring some cash to the table. That doesn't rule out selling my 1.6 and moving on to a 1.8, short of having an automatic car I have the worst starting point open diff, small brakes, 1.6, no roll bar, no hard top, tired brakes, old tires, etc.
NB Miata - I did find and contact the owner of the orange and grey car posted here! It felt like a good option to fill the role I am looking for. Shortly after my excitement faded away when I learned that NB cars suffer from some major rust problems in the front chassis legs. They rot from the inside out with only minimal rust showing from the exterior. I didn't realize this change in design from the NA and being in an area that uses tons of salt I'm a bit weary of the NB now. I've seen many with rust issues in the rockers, and I bet the front ends aren't much better.
NC Miata - I see the occasional NC1 in the $8-9k range, but almost always 5-speed cars. Do they have more issues than the 6-speed when used on track? I know the early 6-speed isn't the most robust and the 5-speed is a carry over from the earlier cars. I like these as a starting point. I have owned one before, and I think it might be a good fit, but cheap NCs aren't very cheap anymore.
986 Boxster - I haven't looked into these much, all I recall is the IMS issues that plagued some. How do I find a good one?
86/BRZ/FRS - Not finding any under 13k in my extended area, 250mi plus. Most of these are rough. I like the platform, but they might need to age a little more to get some breathing room under $10k.
E36 - Another one I like, but availability is slim. These appear to be the new S13 of the drift world and I'm not seeing much worth buying.
E46 - I do see some nice rwd, manual cars, but rarely the nicer upper trims, ZHP, etc. I've also been warned a diff is a major expense for one of these cars, like $4k. I'd like to have an LSD for this purpose, but what do the owners say? I would enjoy a straight six singing along on track.
E9X - A few of these are getting into my price range, but BMW really ratcheted up the sales of xDrive models by the time the generation came out. Is it worth messing with an AWD car? Not finding the rwd, manual models to be available. I think I also read of a spec series on these starting up?
8th Gen Civic Si - One of my personal curiosities, a potential spiritual successor to my GS-R. I see some in the 6-9k range. I don't know much about how they handle track use, but I would assume quite well.
Fit/SundaeCup - Of those that run in this class, I like the ethos of what is going on. Can you tell me, would the 1.6L miata I have now be faster or slower given the same driver?
ExRacecars - I've seen some interesting things here, a $5k late 90s accord, a $3K Mazda MX-6 usually with spares too. I like the idea of having a real cage, but these are odd ball lemons and champ cars. Getting one to pass as street legal in PA would be a chore unless you guys know something I don't.
In reply to Nitroracer (Forum Supporter) :
I can answer more on the 986. IMS was an issue yes, but by this point if it was going to fail, it already did. With the age and mileage, just buy the one you like. I prefer high mileage cars personally because they tend to continue to be reliable. It's easy to find a 986 with the IMS changed, they are the easy ones right behind the clutch/flywheel (not the case-splitter of the 987). Basically when you do the clutch, do the IMS as well. All the cost is labor, and it's all the same labor as a clutch change.
As for rollbars, the 986 has factory roll over protection. The A-pillars and rollbars are high strength steel and designed and certified to hold the weight of the car. A 986 can be driven on track with no additional rollover protection or hardtop by every major sanctioning body, including SCCA, PCA, and NASA. That said, they did make hardtops for them (I have one) though they are harder to find than a Miata top and pricier. I actually don't like mine much and am looking at selling it.
In reply to Nitroracer (Forum Supporter) :
The NA Miata I put up a picture of was exactly what you described right down to the open diff. The only change was the roll cage and sticky tires. When I stopped racing it and used it only.for track days I even used stock brake pads.
The car was a blast to race and drive.
I'd do the following if your Miata was mine:
Roll hoop, lowering springs, better dampers/shocks, updated sway bars, dual purpose brake pads and some 200tw tires.
After that I'd drive the piss out of it.
John already posted this above. Absolutely a no brainer if you ask me. S197s are reliable, quick, fast, and have a huge aftermarket offering relatively inexpensive enhancements.
E46 - I do see some nice rwd, manual cars, but rarely the nicer upper trims, ZHP, etc. I've also been warned a diff is a major expense for one of these cars, like $4k. I'd like to have an LSD for this purpose, but what do the owners say? I would enjoy a straight six singing along on track.
My E46 is an M3, so this is what I've read, rather than personal experience, but:
AIUI, all of the non-M E46s came with open diffs, using traction control/brake activation instead of a mechanical LSD. (Even the M3 only has a viscous unit, not all that great on track). If you're racing in Spec E46 the diff is not a controlled part, so the fast guys will spend a lot of money on getting a really good differential. I'm sure it makes the car faster, but if you're just doing track days you can just drive the car with the open one, as long as you're willing to live with a reduced ability to put down power on corner exit.
In reply to Nitroracer (Forum Supporter) :
Re:sundae cup vs your Miata. They are faster. Not a ton, but local who is a good driver and in the same car we are really close in times autox, was 5 seconds slower around gingerman than my Rio and I'm still 4 seconds slower than the top of the SC pack. You're not always driving in your mirrors as sone suggested earlier. I ran in the advanced group for the Indy time trials. I started at the rear end of the pack because there were some seriously fast cars but there were 4-5 laps before the fast cars caught and passed.
but you should always be checking your mirrors in ANY car. It's how slowly driven fast cars have held up well driven slow cars for a very long time.
I'll add another vote for a 986. All the car magazines in the day touted them as some of the best handling cars, at any cost. There's a reason. I have one and love the hell out of it. Having said that, I'd at least entertain the concept of selling mine to you for well under your budget. It's got a rebuilt title, so it's going to cost less than all others.
In reply to bobzilla :
You are absolutely correct. Checking mirrors should be part of any scan.
Scanning instruments, mirrors, is critical for track awareness. That is the only way you can k ow if you can do a no look swerve. Which is what you need to do to avoid an accident sometimes
Nitroracer (Forum Supporter) said:E46 - I do see some nice rwd, manual cars, but rarely the nicer upper trims, ZHP, etc. I've also been warned a diff is a major expense for one of these cars, like $4k. I'd like to have an LSD for this purpose, but what do the owners say? I would enjoy a straight six singing along on track.
I've got 2, both 04 sedans, one 325i street car and one 330i ZHP track car. I wouldn't hold out for a ZHP, nothing really special that justifies its price. Honestly the 325 has plenty of power on the street, I don't think i'd be disappointed by one on the track by any means, but the 33o does have larger factory brakes that are fine for track duty w/ fluid & pads.
I'm of the opinion that every rear drive car needs an LSD. There's not really any budget options for E46's, but y9ou don't need to spend 4k either. For the ZHP, i picked up a 330i auto diff (3.38 vs 3.07 ZHP or 2.93 33oi manual) for $180, an m-factory helical LSD for about $1k, and $30 for axle seals. Not terrible. A few challenges though:
Like many cars, you're better buying on condition than features (325 vs 330) in my opinion. The 325 is down on power, but the motors are less susceptible to oil pump issues with continued high RPM use.
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