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Gingerbeardman
Gingerbeardman New Reader
3/23/19 4:31 p.m.

*PLEASE TRY TO KEEP ALL POSTS RELEVANT TO THE TOPIC!!!*
*THIS IS NOT A THREAD TO SELL YOUR STUFF...if you have technical info to add, or pertinent questions that would make this thread BETTER, please post! IF NOT, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM POSTING IRRELEVENT POSTS* 

*The goal is to create a thread worthy of a sticky for reference use by other members! REMEMBER...THIS THREAD IS FOR USERS INFORMATION, TO ENCOURAGE BUILDERS TO PURSUE THEIR DREAM BUILDS*

*I'm trying to create a "living document" that I can keep adding to and others can contribute to. THIS IS FOR THE MEMBERS!*

Starting with kit cars in the 60's and 70's, to replicas in the 80's and 90's, to custom builds, repowered vehicles and exotic kit cars from the 00's-now...the main connective thread has always been the transaxle.

What is a transaxle? It is a combination gearbox and R&P with differential, in one case. It is compact and a must-have for a mid-engine or rear-engine build!

So let's get this party started and cover the most common O.E.M. varieties as well as a few aftermarket models that offer a gamut of options for different budgets.

I have created a companion thread to this one dedicated to ADAPTER kits: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/improviseadaptand-overcome-a-companion-thread-to-transaxles/152073/page1/

I'm not sure how I want to organize this thread, so I'll include O.E.M. (brand), constructor model #, years available, budget and companies offering them. If you can think of more info you'd like to know about, please let me know so I can incorporate the data as it becomes available.

Wherever possible, I will include links for sources and where I have obtained the data.

The important thing to remember when selecting a transaxle is that the gear ratios are compatible with the RPM range of the engine it will be mated to. Both so that your engine will be developing power at the operating range it was designed or modified to, as well as that it will meet your performance requirements (1/4 mile times, 0-60 times, top speed, etc.), and also so that you will be able to drive on the highway at tolerable RPMs...droning is very common with SBF, SBC, SBD, and LS series engines at 2500-3000ish RPM steady-state. Obviously a track-only car will have different requirements to a street-driven or dual-use car.

Center Distance is the measure of the distance between centers of shafts.

Generally speaking, strength of a gearbox is determinate upon 3 main factors: C/D (center distance), width of gears, and bearing spacing/placement.

There are some differences that can make a factor in strength determination, ie; steel alloys used in manufacturing of shafts and gears, shot-peening, cryo, and ISF (aftermarket and OEM finishes applied to machined components), helical vs. straight-cut gearing (applies to thrust loading of shafts), size of R&P (generally speaking, bigger is better, but not always) and oil cooling provisions for highly-loaded components (removing heat helps bearings and alleviates galling and fretting).

Hypoid offset refers to the shift of a pinion gear to it's mating ring gear from the centerline, either above or below centerline. Traditional American R&P's use a hypoid offset, other than the early (1900-1930ish) rearends...for example the 10" Quick-Change is based on the early Ford 1-ton 10" rear end, as the 8 3/4" Quick-Change is based on the Ford V8 rearends.

In the context of transaxles, other than TRANSVERSE mounted, the focus of this topic is on LONGITUDINAL transaxles, primarily MANUAL transaxles, that are suitable for use in a mid-engine build. Any that are listed FWD will be considered RWD for the purpose of mid-engine builds. I will always try to list the codes and sources of these transaxles.

(This topic is research heavy and data points are sourced from factory manuals whenever possible. That being said, it may take me quite a while to wade through all the material I've collected over the years. Bear with me, as this is a passion-project, not a quick pump&dump!)

Brotus7
Brotus7 HalfDork
3/23/19 4:55 p.m.

Common transaxle questions:

  • How much torque/power can it take?
  • What else bolts to it?
  • What adapters are available?
  • Limited slip?
TurnerX19
TurnerX19 HalfDork
3/23/19 5:28 p.m.

Does it have synchromesh or is it dog engaged, IE Hewland or Staffs? Are the change gears swappable to vary ratios?

Gingerbeardman
Gingerbeardman New Reader
3/23/19 5:36 p.m.

 Audi 016

 Porsche 016/083

 Porsche 016/083

 

 Porsche 016/083

Audi 5000/016, Porsche 016/083 (manufactured by Getrag):

Available in FWD and AWD (Audi) configurations, also available in RWD in Porsche 924, 944S and 944T models.

Three bellhousing patterns were available, VW/Audi/Porsche. Porsche models used a torque-tube specific mounting pattern. Porsche models used a shorter input shaft with Porsche specific spline pattern and no provision for a throwout bearing or pilot bearing.

GT40 builders have made amalgam boxes using a mixture of both models parts.

KEP (Kennedy Engineering Products) offers adapter plates, flywheels and clutches.

https://www.kennedyeng.com/

They offer a variety of engine to transaxle adapters. I find their website a letdown, it might be better to call them to ensure they offer a package for your application.

4 (early) & 5  (late) speed manual. Synchromesh, H-pattern. 

1-3-5

2-4-R

LOW strength (300+ ft/lbs torque). This torque-rating is debatable as the highest-torque engine available with these boxes was 258 ft/lbs, though those have been modified through the years to considerably higher power figures.

C/D: 75-77mm. (This info is hard to come by and the two available sources I have found are in disagreement.)

Ring gear diameter: 7.188", hypoid offset ?"

Low(ish) price. $300-1000 on eBay.

These boxes are all 30+ years old, AFAIK, there are few O.E.M. parts available through Audi or Porsche, those that are available are listed at premium prices. You might have to get several boxes to build/rebuild a workable box.

Advanced Automotion offers a R&P bearing: https://advancedautomotion.com/shop/product_info.php/cPath/194_155/products_id/171/osCsid/4inf5ls5362sc3ssfv6bblvfu5

Aftermarket and factory LSD are available (Wavetrac & Porsche)

924 (eu)/924(US)/     924T & 944     /   944T  RATIOS:

1) 3.600 /   3.600  /   3.600  /  3.600  /     3.500

2) 2.125  /   2.125   /   2.125   /   2.125   /     2.059   

3) 1.360 /   1.360   /   1.360  /  1.4583 /     1.400 

4) 0.966 /  0.966  /   0.966  /  1.0714  /    1.034

5)   n/a   /   n/a    / 0.7290  / 0.7297  /     0.8290 

6)   n/a   /   n/a    /     n/a   /   n/a     /       n/a

R) 3.500 /  3.500  /   3.500  /  3.500  /     3.500

FD) 3.44 /  3.889  /   4.1111   /  3.889  /     3.375

http://garage.ideola.com/downloads/G31-Trans-Updated-20100207.pdf

For some reason these were REALLY popular with the Lambo replica guys in the 80's and 90's, my guess is because they were the most affordable gearboxes in the junkyards at the time (pre-internet) and 01E's hadn't arrived on the scene yet. They're still listed on the Lambo replica sites as "the best" and "easily obtained". Of course those are flash-based sites!

Gingerbeardman
Gingerbeardman New Reader
3/23/19 6:37 p.m.

Audi/Porsche 01E

https://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a4_mk1/power_transmission/5__6-speed_manual_gearbox_01e_front-wheel_drive/technical_data/gearbox_identification/

Known V.A.G. codes for different ratios:

https://workshop-manuals.com/audi/

Your best bet to find the gear ratios and the code you're looking for is to start at the link above, and select the model/range for the gearbox you want, then use their Google search on their page for Power Transmission of whatever model/range, and click through the the transmission offerings in the lefthand column, for example, Six speed manual gearbox 01E, then click on Code letters, Allocation and transmission ratios and capacities.

 Audi 01E

 Porsche 01E

Audi/VW 01E and Porsche 986/01E (manufactured by Getrag):

Bolts to all available Audi engines at time of manufacture: I4, V6, V8, diesel and gas. Porsche models used a specific torque-tube mounting pattern.

KEP and other companies offer adapter plates, flywheels and clutches.

FWD/AWD/RWD.

6 speed manual. Synchromesh, H-pattern.

R-1-3-5

    2-4-6

MEDIUM strength (450+ft/lbs). Torque rating is debatable as the highest torque-output engine mated to this box was rated @325 lb/ft (2.7 BiTurbo V6) in the B5 S4. These cars have been modified to MUCH higher outputs however. 

Center Distance: 77MM (same as Porsche 915 and 901 transaxles) 

Ring gear diameter: 968 - 8", Audi 01E 7.50-7.75", hypoid offset ~1" (output shafts BELOW pinion shaft)

Weight: approximately 175 lbs.

Price, lowish $2995 w/o LSD, $3995 w/LSD (rebuilt/refreshed from Advanced Automotion).

Interestingly, Gumpert (as in the Gumpert Apollo, and one of the drivetrain engineers from Audi's Spec B era) used the 01E in their first generation supercar, before transitioning to a CIMA 6-speed transaxle (also used by Koenigsegg, Pagani and other supercar manufacturers.

Advanced Automotion offers both dog-tooth and synchromesh, straight-cut and helical replacement gears, as do PAR engineering, Albins, and PPG.

https://advancedautomotion.com/shop/product_info.php/cPath/194_52_142/products_id/144/osCsid/4inf5ls5362sc3ssfv6bblvfu5

https://advancedautomotion.com/shop/product_info.php/cPath/194_52_142/products_id/169/osCsid/4inf5ls5362sc3ssfv6bblvfu5

Gear ratios:

Audi UltraClose ratio/ Close ratio /    Wide ratio   / Porsche 968 01E 

  1)            3.75              /       3.75        /         3.50         /             3.182

  2)           2.14              /       2.14         /          1.89         /             2.00

  3)           1.52              /       1.435       /          1.23         /             1.435

  4)           1.17               /       1.111         /   0.93 or 0.87  /             1.111

  5)           0.97             /       0.912       /   0.73 or 0.68  /             0.912

  6)           0.83            /       0.778       /   0.60 or 0.56  /             0.778

  R)          3.455           /       3.455       /         3.455        /             3.445

FD)          3.875           /      3.875        /         3.875        /             3.778

https://advancedautomotion.com/shop/product_info.php/cPath/194_52_143/products_id/287/osCsid/4inf5ls5362sc3ssfv6bblvfu5

https://advancedautomotion.com/shop/product_info.php/cPath/194_52_143/products_id/264/osCsid/4inf5ls5362sc3ssfv6bblvfu5

https://advancedautomotion.com/shop/product_info.php/cPath/194_52_143/products_id/812/osCsid/4inf5ls5362sc3ssfv6bblvfu5

https://advancedautomotion.com/shop/product_info.php/products_id/29

There is an ultra-rare 3.60 R&P ratio available from Europe, only Advanced Automotion has the ability to order these, AFAIK.

Wavetrac & OEM Porsche LSD's are available.

A built-in oil pump was available as a factory option, and Advanced Automotion has the ability to retrofit these oil pumps upon request.

Probably one of the most affordable models for a mid-engine build, with plenty of OEM options and aftermarket support. 1st gear is really short, but liveable unless your 0-60mph sprint requires no 1st-2nd shift. 

AFAIK, the 016 and the 01E have the same bellhousing pattern, though it has been indicated that the 01E might have some additional holes as different engines were added to the Audi lineup.

Gingerbeardman
Gingerbeardman New Reader
3/23/19 11:55 p.m.

5 speed manual, syncromesh, H-pattern, FWD/RWD

Audi 01A / Porsche G86.00/   G86.01   /  G87.01

  1)  3.778 /           3.50           /    3.50       /     3.50

  2) 2.176  /           2.118           /    2.118      /     2.118

  3) 1.429 /           1.429           /    1.429     /     1.429

  4) 1.091 /            1.029          /     1.09      /     1.09

  5) 0.889/            0.79           /     0.838   /     0.838

FD) 3.89 /            3.89           /     3.56      /     3.56


LOW strength (300ish ft/lb)

LOW price $350-1000 on eBay.

It should be possible to make an amalgam box to optimize ratios, but according to guys who rebuild Audi/VW boxes everyday, there aren't many parts available and these boxes tend to shred themselves with higher torque loads (300+ ft/lbs). They are considered weak and disposable by the Audi/VW enthusiast community.

The bellhousing is a dual-pattern design that fits both Porsche water-cooled flat sixes and Audi/VW I4 (possibly also V6) engines.

These boxes are considered "buy & replace" rather than "buy & rebuild". That being said, these boxes sell for cheap on eBay. It might be appropriate depending on what type of builder you are. As we are all aware, the manual transmission is going the way of the dodo. As cars age and rules & regulations change, junkyards and "recyclers" yards may be on the way out. It might be worthy buying a few to have on the shelf, just in case.

KyAllroad (Jeremy)
KyAllroad (Jeremy) UltimaDork
3/24/19 12:14 a.m.

I have one of these transmissions.  It was in an early 2000’s Passat (1.8T I believe) but should work with the 3.0 V6 as well).  Collecting dust if anyone wants to collect it from Central KY for $100

Gingerbeardman
Gingerbeardman New Reader
3/24/19 12:43 a.m.

Forgive this post being out of order, it is intended as a sort of organizational chart for the current and future posts I will be adding as time allows. THIS IS ONLY FOR OEM TRANSAXLES, NOT FOR AFTERMARKET TRANSAXLES. This is by no means complete or all-encompassing, though I am doing my best to collate all data and incorporate everything I can as I find it.

*This is listed alphabetically, though not necessarily listed in order of appearance, time-wise*

Acura:

Legend (not sure of gearbox nomenclature) 5 & 6 speed.

Alpine:

UN1

AMC:

UN369 (used in Eagle Premier)

Audi:

016

01E

01A

01X/02X

0A3

0B3

Chevrolet/GM/BOP:

TH425 (3 speed automatic) TH325 (3 speed automatic) TH325-4L (4 speed automatic OD)

Corvair/Tempest (3 & 4 speed manual, 2 speed automatic)

Corvette C5/C6/C7 (6 speed T56, 6 speed T6060, 7 speed T6070, 4 speed 4L60, 6 speed 6L80, 8 speed 8L90)

Dodge:

42LE (4 speed automatic OD)

Ford:

Ricardo GT (6 speed, Ford GT 2004-2005)

Lotus:

Peugeot C35 (early cars)

UN1 (late cars)

Porsche:

901 (4 & 5 speed)

915 (4 & 5 speed)

G86-00, G86-01, G87-01 (5 speed)

G86-20, G86-21 (6 speed)

G87-20, G87-21 (6 speed)

930 (4 speed)

G50-00 (5 speed)

G50-01 (5 speed)

G50-02 (5 speed)

G50-50 (5 speed)

G50-52 (5 speed)

G50-03 (5 speed)

G50-04 (5 speed)

G50-05 (5 speed)

G50-20 (6 speed)

G50-21 (6 speed)

G96-50 (6 speed)

G96-88 (6 speed)

G96-90 (6 speed)

G96-96 (6 speed)

G97-50 (6 speed)

Saab:

900 (4 & 5 speed)

TY75 (5 speed, Saab-aru)

Subaru:

TY75 (5 speed)

TY756 (6 speed)

TY85 (6 speed)

 

TurnerX19
TurnerX19 HalfDork
3/24/19 7:00 a.m.

Parts are unobtanium for the Renault and Peugeot units used in Lotus Esprit, and, more importantly, the ring & pinion fail frequently in 4 cylinder Esprits. I would not use.

TurnerX19
TurnerX19 HalfDork
3/24/19 7:04 a.m.

SAAB 900 unit sits below the engine and forms the engine sump, also fragile enough to fail on normally aspirated SAABs. Ring and pinion at the rear, input at the front .

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
3/24/19 8:08 a.m.
Gingerbeardman said:

Audi 5000/016, Porsche 016/083 (manufactured by Getrag):

Available in FWD and AWD (Audi) configurations, also available in RWD in Porsche 924, 944S and 944T models.

 

False - the 924/944 version was not RWD, it was the FWD transaxle with a different input shaft to mate to the torque tube vs. a clutch disk.

 

Audi versions bolt to all engines that were available at the time: I5, I4, V8? Porsche models used a torque-tube specific mounting pattern.

 

Also false info.  016s came in two bolt patterns, Audi and VW.  All wheel drive Audis with VW four cylinder engines (only sold in Europe) had the 4 cylinder bolt pattern 016. (Front drive four cylinders used the 012 or 013, I forget, but not the 016) Everything else had the 5 cylinder pattern, which was shared by Audi fives, sixes, and eights.  Porsche transaxles used the same bolt pattern, although the opposite end of the torque tube changed depending on if it had a Porsche or Audi engine.  The non-S 924 had an Audi-based engine..

 

I say "VW" four cylinder to distingtuish it from the Audi four cylinder, which was a pushrod engine known in the US for its use in AMC Spirits and some mail Jeeps.  Porsche put an OHC head on it for the 924.

stroker
stroker UltraDork
3/24/19 8:12 a.m.

This is a VERY useful thread and dovetails with the "Daytona Prototype" thread from a few weeks ago.  Thank you, Gingerbeardman, for assembling and posting this information.   Do you know if these transaxles are typically stamped or marked in some way to allow a potential purchaser to verify what they're looking at before buying?  The biggest issue I'm running into is the prevalence of Quattro boxes and the question of whether they can easily be converted from AWD to 2wd.  The only other examples I can think of that would apply to this might be very early FWD Subaru engines but they were very underpowered (typically less than 100hp) and probably not worth researching.  Potential donors have long since been crushed.

Gingerbeardman
Gingerbeardman New Reader
3/24/19 12:02 p.m.

In reply to Knurled. :

The 924 and 944 drives the rear wheels...it is LITERALLY RWD!!! That's not semantics, that is fact.

The Getrag 016/083 was essentially a FWD transaxle with a different front housing to match the Porsche torque tube. FACT.

I don't argue that the input shaft was different. If you READ the PDF I attached to that section, you would have been able to see that for yourself.

I appreciate the info regarding VW/AUDI bellhousing patterns. THAT is useful info.

Calling something false because I wasn't able to find ALL the info or doesn't suit your perspective isn't helpful. The goal is to consolidate good info in ONE location, not to wave your e-Peen and call me a liar.

I have added the info you contributed to the 016 transaxle post. Thank you for the good info.

Gingerbeardman
Gingerbeardman New Reader
3/24/19 12:12 p.m.

In reply to stroker :

There are raised casting marks on the Getrag cases that indicate what model (01E, 01X, etc.) with etched or dot-peened markings on various machined flanges that list Audi/VW/Porsche discrete codes (FHY, JEM, etc.) The codes are a whole subject matter of their own that would require an entire thread devoted to their listing and parsing.

The only known problems with converting the AWD boxes (both Audi and Subaru) are that the layshafts are hollow to allow the pinion shaft to pass through them, with some models having weaknesses found in the two-piece arrangement due to various manufacturing choices of the layshafts. The boxes seem to handle more power as AWD than when converted to FWD. This is not scientific fact, with data points and sample sizes, but rather the assembled knowledge and accepted practice among the few who have done the work or have run the converted units. Your experience may vary!

Gingerbeardman
Gingerbeardman New Reader
3/24/19 3:31 p.m.

Audi 0A2/0A3, Porsche G87-20/G87-21

FWD/AWD/RWD, 6 speed manual, synchromesh, H-pattern.

R-1-3-5

    2-4-6

Center distance: 82mm

Ring gear diameter: 8.0-8.2?" (Larger than 01E, data is limited to anecdotal evidence)

Boxster S and Cayman S G87-21 came stock with LSD, Audi 0A3 came stock with center LSD; Wavetrac, Quaife and Porsche LSD's are available.

First Audi/VW/Porsche transaxle that I'm aware of where the FWD/AWD components are interchangeable.

The 01E had specific FWD/RWD parts and specific AWD parts EXCEPT for the mainshafts on the Audi/VW 01E...the mating gears (layshaft) for 1st and 2nd WERE specific to FWD vs. AWD.

Audi FWD 0A2 /   Audi AWD 0A3   /BoxsterS G87-20/CaymanS G87-21

   1)    3.556        /           3.667            /          3.667           /           3.307

   2)    1.905        /     2.050 , 2.211      /           2.05            /           1.95

   3)    1.241         /  1.276,1.462,1.520  /           1.407           /           1.407

   4)    0.882       /      0.882 , 1.133     /            1.133           /           1.133     

   5)    0.659       /      0.659 , 0.919    /            0.972          /           0.972

   6)    0.558   /0.528,0.547,0.558,0.778/       0.822          /           0.822

   R)    3.333       /          3.333           /             3.333          /           3.333

FD) 3.875,3.625 /   3.889,4.11,3.70   /            3.875           /           3.875


This is the most modern, AFFORDABLE, highest torque-rated transaxle available for a GRM build. Strength is claimed to be equal to or beyond the 01E.

Examples on eBay go for $1500-3500 regularly. Tons of aftermarket support and DIY builds:

https://jhmotorsports.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=0A3 

https://advancedautomotion.com/shop/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=0a3&search_in_description=1&osCsid=4inf5ls5362sc3ssfv6bblvfu5&x=0&y=0

https://store.034motorsport.com/wavetrac-0a3-front-limited-slip-differential-b6-b7-audi-s4-4-2l-quattro-6-mt.html

https://store.034motorsport.com/clutch-throw-out-bearing-metal-audi-01a-01e.html

http://holingeramerica.com/showroom/porsche-cayman-gt4-g81

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/435372-DIY-0A3-Manual-Transmission-Disassembly

Has known issues with synchro "dogs" coming off gears eating shift collars or simply locking you out of gear. Not the carbon synchro rings, but the mating part with teeth that lock the collar to the gear to drive it. There are parts available and the fix is common enough now that many shops are doing it. Something to be aware of with a used box.

Gingerbeardman
Gingerbeardman New Reader
3/24/19 6:44 p.m.

Audi 0B3/0B4

2008+

There really isn't much information out there on these transaxles. I've looked. I've seen photos of one "in the wild" and that's about it. 



These are REALLY wide at the output shafts, making for short axle shafts and resulting bad angles if they aren't aligned carefully.

The output is 30mm higher and 152mm further forward than the 01E/0A3.

FWD/AWD, 6 speed manual, synchromesh, H-pattern shift.

             Audi 0B3 FWD  /      Audi 0B4 AWD

        1)           3.667         /              3.667            

        2)          1.950          /        1.950 , 2.158

        3)          1.207          /        1.027 , 1.520

        4)          0.848        /         0.848 , 1.133

        5)          0.651         /         0.651 , 0.919

        6)         0.549         /         0.538 , 0.778

        R)         3.222         /                3.222

      TG)         1.069          /               1.069

      FD)         3.222         /         3.44 , 3.625

They were found in A4/S4/S5(?) from 2007-2010 behind 4.2L V8s reportedly making 325 ft/lbs of torque.

The use a transfer gear mounted at the rear to drive a pinion drive shaft that is mounted in it's own casing alongside the gearbox oddly reminiscent to an old TIPtronic layout.

They have an odd clutch arrangement...the flexplate bolts to the engine and a pedestal mounts the flywheel to the flexplate, like a bundt cake pan, so that there is room for the axle shaft to spin BETWEEN the flexplate and flywheel.

I'm afraid I really don't know more than that.

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
3/24/19 6:49 p.m.
Gingerbeardman said:

In reply to Knurled. :

The 924 and 944 drives the rear wheels...it is LITERALLY RWD!!! That's not semantics, that is fact.

The Getrag 016/083 was essentially a FWD transaxle with a different front housing to match the Porsche torque tube. FACT.

I don't argue that the input shaft was different. If you READ the PDF I attached to that section, you would have been able to see that for yourself.

I appreciate the info regarding VW/AUDI bellhousing patterns. THAT is useful info.

Calling something false because I wasn't able to find ALL the info or doesn't suit your perspective isn't helpful. The goal is to consolidate good info in ONE location, not to wave your e-Peen and call me a liar.

I have added the info you contributed to the 016 transaxle post. Thank you for the good info.

Perhaps you misundertand my post - I call out false info as false info, so that when people find the thread in one or two or twelve years, the clarification exists.  I know bad info exists out there, some of it even "straight from the horse's mouth", so it's important to keep spreading correct info out there.  (I spent the morning researching naturally aspirated Miata power, and there is SOOOO much bad info out there, it is depressing!)

 

I would not call any 016 a "RWD" transmission because that carries a specific connotation - single output to the rear.  If you wanted an Audi-bellhousing RWD transmission, you need to hunt down a rare Volvo 240 Diesel and bring a floorjack and some wrenches.  Semantically, a transaxle can be "FWD" or "RWD" merely depending on which end of the car it's been in.

 

The only difference between the Porsche 016 and the Audi 016's housing is not the bolt pattern, it's the hole for the shift linkage.  Barring that, they bolt up just the same.

Gingerbeardman
Gingerbeardman New Reader
3/24/19 7:24 p.m.

In reply to Knurled. :

I apologize if I was snappish earlier. I've invested a LOT of my own time in this research and now publication, as a personal impetus...perhaps I was being too protective of an idea, like it were a child.

We're diving into the weeds here a bit. I'll agree with you semantically that a rear-mount transaxle like the Corvette T56, or the Aston Martin Oerlikon-Graziano transaxle are rear output only, with clever "add-on" pass-through differential cases (both pinions are mounted behind the ring gear, driven by the output shaft).

I'll still argue that any gearbox that drives ONLY the rear axles is RWD, whether it's powered through a traditional separately mounted transmission and diff, or an all-in-one unit like a transaxle IF IT DRIVES the REAR wheels. It's the powered wheels that obviously matters in the CONTEXT of WHICH, rather than HOW, when talking about driven wheels.

When a gearbox is REAR-mounted driving the REAR WHEELS, it obviously is NOT FWD. Just as capping the rear output on an AWD box, but leaving it to power the FRONT or relocated backward to power the REAR wheels (as in a modified Subaru box) is no longer an AWD gearbox, but rather a FWD or RWD gearbox BECAUSE it powers only the FRONT or REAR wheels. These connotations matter.

When it comes to seperate components vs. a self-contained gearboxes, that IS an important differentiation, and I agree that I will try harder to avoid any unintentional miscommunication in this and other threads I participate in when passing on information.

That being said, I did make an effort to find a 944 specific case to show off the bellhousing, and some 968 01E photos to show the differentiation between that and the Audi 01E variant. So I appreciate your clarification on those matters. I admit that I'm not omnipotent or omniscient, so when I lack knowledge or experience, I'm always more than happy to receive an education.

stroker
stroker UltraDork
3/24/19 8:50 p.m.

GBM, the last thing I would want is to appear ungrateful for your contribution, but it sure would be nice (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) if we could get some sort of tabulation of make/model/year for these models of transaxles.  I'm scouring Searchtempest daily looking for Audi donor candidates but I fear I might be missing out on something. 

What about the Acura Legends with the longitudinal engine?  

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
3/24/19 9:15 p.m.
stroker said:

GBM, the last thing I would want is to appear ungrateful for your contribution, but it sure would be nice (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) if we could get some sort of tabulation of make/model/year for these models of transaxles.  I'm scouring Searchtempest daily looking for Audi donor candidates but I fear I might be missing out on something. 

What about the Acura Legends with the longitudinal engine?  

 

Audi transaxles are tricky, the easiest way I've found is to search for which trans codes had which gear ratios and then go to car-part.com to poke around and cross reference to find out WHICH, say, A4 3.0l had the 4.11 final drive 01E 6-speed.

 

Legends (and Vigors, and 3.2/3.5RLs) didn't have "transaxles" per se, they had transmissions with a forward output shaft and a separate differential.  Kind of like early Tercels, or TH425s.

Gingerbeardman
Gingerbeardman New Reader
3/24/19 10:09 p.m.

In reply to stroker :

I'm working on it. I will try to complete those codes as the week wears on. I've been sick, so while sitting on my duff at home, I was doing this to keep myself occupied.

I'm still trying to figure out a better way to organize the thread, so if anyone has some ideas, I'm all ears.

Unfortunately, all the Audi/VW FWD boxes are primarily European, with some Canadian and Mexican models in N.A. So unless you have a dealership or partshouse that can order specific parts, you're looking at buying/shipping/importing, or dealing with Advanced Automotion as that's what Scott does.

Gingerbeardman
Gingerbeardman New Reader
3/24/19 10:41 p.m.

In reply to stroker :

Reread the section on 01E transaxles at the top of the post to see new info posted. 

It really is a MAHOOSSIVE database for the information you want. I can't imagine how much data is there, it would be a full-time job for several months to manually populate a table. Probably a cinch for someone who uses a data compiler and a well-built excel spreadsheet, but then where to host?

This could quickly become a monster if I don't set limits on my time and contributions. I'm sorry, I'm trying to be helpful, but I would also like this to remain a hobby, not just a work-for-free job. 

I will always endeavor to help anyone who has questions, but Scott @Advanced Automotions DOES this for a living and he knows more about these boxes than just about anybody in N.A. other than the guys who designed them and manufactured them.

stroker
stroker UltraDork
4/22/19 9:37 a.m.

Will the Porsche M44 engine used in the 944 attach to any of the Audi Front Wheel Drive boxes?

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia HalfDork
4/22/19 10:43 a.m.

Great info , 

And before you throw rocks at me ,  are there any automatic transaxles ?

And if you know , can the Ring and pinion be flipped on the Audi transaxles , ?

I think that is one of the most important things for many car builders.

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
4/22/19 1:51 p.m.

In reply to californiamilleghia :

Audis like Subarus have pinions off-axis from the ring gear.  No flipping without an aftermarket gearkit.

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