Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
3/16/23 9:59 a.m.
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Is it possible to do it all with one car? We think the answer is yes, and we think the best option in the current used car market is a Mk7 Golf GTI like ours.

As we’ve covered in previous updates, it’s our hypothesis that these cars are relatively affordable, reliable, fun, fast, safe tools that can handle both the …

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CrashDummy
CrashDummy Reader
3/16/23 11:29 a.m.

It's a shame that a sporty car like the GTI doesn't have an "off" button for the stability and traction control from the factory; it really should.

 

The article seems to imply that even in manual mode the transmission doesn't just do what you tell it to do. Is this true? Seems to defeat the purpose if it only listens to you some of the time, and is the best argument I've seen for avoiding the dual clutch and sticking with the manual. 

calteg
calteg SuperDork
3/16/23 11:35 a.m.

Sounds like sticky rubber fixes a lot of those issues. I've lusted after a GTI for the past few years, especially now that the MK8 got a lot of the previous Golf R bits. I'm still not convinced about their long term reliability, I had a brief and horrendus ownership experience with a MK4.

aw614
aw614 HalfDork
3/16/23 1:22 p.m.

The most frustrating part of my MK6 was the traction control especially on the older 2010-2011, short of changing the abs module to a new one or disabling the steering angle sensor, cant be fully off like the 2012-2014 models.

VW has been frustrating with their stance on it on US cars, whereas the ROW cars seem to allow it. 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
3/16/23 1:54 p.m.

The DSG is a fantastic transmission overall, but there's no way around the kickdown switch even in manual mode. So driving a stock GTI fast requires pressing the throttle fully, but not fully enough to hit the switch. It's not a big deal but is an adjustment from a normal car. Spoiler alert: We'll cover fixing it with a transmission tune shortly. 

CrashDummy
CrashDummy Reader
3/16/23 1:59 p.m.

In reply to Tom Suddard :

How does it work on the other end of the spectrum? Will it let you hold gears and bang off the rev-limiter or does it upshift for you? 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
3/16/23 6:20 p.m.

Nope, it forces the upshift. That's not a big deal on track--shifts are so fast there's no reason to sit on the limiter--but downshifts coming out of a corner just upset the chassis. 

audiguy
audiguy New Reader
3/16/23 7:59 p.m.

I am really looking forward to this project.  Do you have corner weights yet?  Dyno figures?  

I can't wait to see future articles!!

 

Error404
Error404 HalfDork
3/16/23 8:07 p.m.
aw614 said:

The most frustrating part of my MK6 was the traction control especially on the older 2010-2011, short of changing the abs module to a new one or disabling the steering angle sensor, cant be fully off like the 2012-2014 models.

VW has been frustrating with their stance on it on US cars, whereas the ROW cars seem to allow it. 

That was a primary factor in me buying a track car instead of continuing with my MkV, if I wasn't perfect I paid for it in boiled brake fluid. Otherwise it was a joy to take to the track, I could fit all my tires with a bag and passenger and beer and road food. 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/16/23 9:29 p.m.
Tom Suddard said:

Nope, it forces the upshift. That's not a big deal on track--shifts are so fast there's no reason to sit on the limiter--but downshifts coming out of a corner just upset the chassis. 

I lost all faith in one of the big name tuners when they said they recalibrate the DSG to shift at peak power instead of near/at redline because "there is no point to revving higher".

I can mathematically prove that it is faster to shift when your horsepower before the shift equals the horsepower after the shift, which generally requires shifting 1000rpm or more after peak.

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter)
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
3/17/23 10:39 a.m.

Some of the big name tuners are just as stupid as the big name users laugh it's pretty easy to understand if you build a quick shift point calculator, but then you'd have to be smart enough to make or use one.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
3/17/23 12:15 p.m.

I don't want to give the wrong impression of the DSG: Overall it's a fantastic transmission, and it's 100% faster than a standard six-speed would be. With a transmission tune, it became even better (and I'll cover that in a future story as we dive further into software tuning). 

Case in point: Let's compare the GTI's lap (blue) against a lap from my LS-swapped 350Z (white):

The 350Z has an H-pattern Tremec Magnum that I absolutely abuse on track, so it's fairly representative of a quick-shifting traditional transmission. Once, I even had another racer ask me if the car had a sequential due to the quick shifts (no sequential, just a lack of mechanical sympathy). 

See the big dip in the white acceleration line? That's a shift in the 350Z. And see the very tiny dip in the blue accleration line just after the 350Z clicks into fourth gear? That's a shift in the GTI. The DSG is worth its weight in gold on track, but has some pesky stock nannies that need to be tuned out to make it even better.

Most of my complaints about the GTI's driving experience on track relate to tires/chassis/power delivery. Again, all stuff that we'll address in coming updates.

 

flatlander937
flatlander937 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
5/16/23 5:01 p.m.

A bit late - but there are a bunch of "tweaks" you can do via adaptations in address 03 (ABS).

 

Stuff like:

stiffen up the pedal by playing with the brake boost level

disabling the "hydraulic brake assistant" (which interprets a "panic" stop if you press the pedal too fast, and ramps up the brake boost so the pedal gets firm instantly and throws you through the windshield).

and disabling "straight ahead brake stabilization" which will let you yaw the car under trail braking much more naturally.

reduce or disable the XDS+ function - this is where it works the brakes mid-corner to "help" the car turn or put power down easier. 

In the address 031 or 032 (front lock electronics) you can increase the differential lockup by adjusting the "wiring logic" from "normal" to "increased traction".

 

These are -really- fun cars with a few basic modifications (camber plates, sway bar{s}, intercooler, and GOOD brake pads) plus the above tweaks. I've been having a lot of fun with mine.

 

Not to mention if you decide to go the DIY tuning route, you can end up with an easy full vehicle data system using Simos Tools with a high speed logging patch applied. Let alone the fun stuff like map switching between 5 tunes, E85 flex fuel capability, and a user-tuneable traction control that fully disables the OEM TC (which is terrible BTW). All of this stuff (plus about 90 other parameters were all logged with an $80 dongle and free Simos Tools for Android app.

 

 

More details in my build thread here:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/der-hase-track-shenanigans-2019-mk75-gti-rabbit-edition/224161/page1/

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