barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
6/29/22 1:39 p.m.

I can't remember if we'd decided these were hot trash or if they were just hot. The candidate in question is my 99 accord, the biscuit. Basic street use, mostly commuting. 

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/29/22 1:54 p.m.

Here's a review, they seem to be on the lower end of the cheapo coilover spectrum, at least the price matches:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/maxpeedingrods-coilovers-for-nanb-miata/163039/page1/

If you wanted to put together a Challenge car or a cheap autocross car these could be a decent choice, but for ordinary street use you'd be better off with stock-spec parts or maybe even something used.

moxnix
moxnix Dork
6/29/22 1:57 p.m.

From that review.

Keith Tanner said:

Took the car to lunch with a coworker. We tried a couple of different of damper settings. The discussion came up as to whether this setup is better than stock springs with a set of blown stock shocks. It was inconclusive.

Keith Tanner said:

I cannot recommend these, regardless of price. If you have four blown shocks, get some real shocks  from a legitimate manufacturer. A set of KYB GR2 stock replacement units for an NA cost $228 shipped from Tire Rack, and you can pair them with a set of take-off springs from another Miata if your springs are broken. If your interest is performance, you'll still get better handling out of that setup. 

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
6/29/22 2:08 p.m.

Hot garbage it is. Thanks all. 

NickD
NickD MegaDork
6/29/22 2:13 p.m.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

I end up posting that link on the r/Miata subreddit a lot

infernosg
infernosg Reader
6/30/22 8:31 a.m.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Thanks for posting this. That was a good read regarding the merits of 2-piece vs 1-piece design. I'm guilty of falling for the 2-piece marketing hype. While my setup is from a "reputable" brand and near 10X the price I can't help but think a lot of Keith's conclusions would be the same. Certainly the loss of travel.

This was the first time I've read the recommendation to set the assembly to the lowest feasible overall height then use the spring perch to set ride height for maximum compression. Makes sense. I assume that logic applies to all suspension types and not just double A-arms. Would be an interesting experiment once I get my car running again.

Defined motorsports
Defined motorsports SuperDork
6/30/22 11:23 a.m.

With a Honda Accord you can go soooo cheap on eBay. eBay coilovers with some decent shocks. And all the other Chinese suspsenion pieces. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/30/22 11:37 a.m.
infernosg said:

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Thanks for posting this. That was a good read regarding the merits of 2-piece vs 1-piece design. I'm guilty of falling for the 2-piece marketing hype. While my setup is from a "reputable" brand and near 10X the price I can't help but think a lot of Keith's conclusions would be the same. Certainly the loss of travel.

This was the first time I've read the recommendation to set the assembly to the lowest feasible overall height then use the spring perch to set ride height for maximum compression. Makes sense. I assume that logic applies to all suspension types and not just double A-arms. Would be an interesting experiment once I get my car running again.

I'd say that logic applies to pavement-based vehicles biased towards performance. They're almost always in need of as much compression travel as possible. I've come across multiple racer biographies (Donohue, Horseman and Yunick, I think) that tell the story of gradual erosion of suspension travel as a car is developed, leading to a "why does this car handle so poorly?" moment and realization.

If you're running a particularly tall ride height , you will want to keep an eye on the droop travel and not end up with a setup that's topped out at static ride height. I've seen a couple of Miatas set up that way, the total lack of droop gave them some pretty sketchy characteristics. Including the inability to go from our parking lot to the street unless they had enough momentum to get over the dip without help from their drive wheels. Rock crawlers, interestingly, are almost exclusively interested in droop travel.

infernosg
infernosg Reader
6/30/22 2:19 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Your second paragraph is exactly what I've been thinking about. My car, a second generation RX7, rapidly develops negative camber in the rear as it's lowered. It's also a MacPherson strut setup at the front so significant reductions in ride height adversely affect handling. If I'm understanding correctly, if my current loaded assembly length is equal to or longer than the uncompressed assembly at minimum length that's a problem. That's where the total lack of droop you mention occurs. The options being either live with less available compression at my current ride height or lower the car then try to correct the other suspension shortfalls.

rob_lewis
rob_lewis UberDork
6/30/22 2:35 p.m.
Defined motorsports said:

With a Honda Accord you can go soooo cheap on eBay. eBay coilovers with some decent shocks. And all the other Chinese suspsenion pieces. 

No kidding.  If you're ok with just replacing the struts and not the coils, you can get a full set for under $70.  For a free commuter, I'd be tempted because if they are complete trash, I'm only out $70.  KYB's look to be about $300 for a set.  Still not too bad.

-Rob

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/30/22 3:06 p.m.
infernosg said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Your second paragraph is exactly what I've been thinking about. My car, a second generation RX7, rapidly develops negative camber in the rear as it's lowered. It's also a MacPherson strut setup at the front so significant reductions in ride height adversely affect handling. If I'm understanding correctly, if my current loaded assembly length is equal to or longer than the uncompressed assembly at minimum length that's a problem. That's where the total lack of droop you mention occurs. The options being either live with less available compression at my current ride height or lower the car then try to correct the other suspension shortfalls.

Total lack of droop happens when there's so much preload on the spring that it doesn't compress when you put the car on it :) Basically, the shock is fully extended at static ride height. It's not a minimum length thing, it's maximum. That's where you can get into trouble with a shock that has too little total shaft travel and you give it all to compression.  And two-piece shocks inherently have less maximum shaft travel because there's less room to package it.

Usually camber gain is desirable, the problem is that strut suspensions struggle to get enough of it. I suspect that handling problems that come from lowering an RX7 come from the lack of front camber relative to the rear (or lack of adjustment in the rear to get rid of it) and lots of bumpstop fun time, but I am not an RX7 person. IIRC there's something a bit weird about the control arm design on those too that may have trouble as it approaches limits.

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
6/30/22 5:04 p.m.

In reply to rob_lewis :

I suspect that the mounts are bad as well. Quick struts (local for $90 fronts) mean I can install them and just buy an alignment. Rear sway link is wireless but I'm thinking I'm all in for about $250 and way less work. 

obsolete
obsolete GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
6/30/22 5:49 p.m.

I just came here to make a dumb joke, but now I'm impressed by the amount of actual useful information in this thread.

Since I'm here, though, I'll say it anyway. Max Pee Ding Rods. There you go.

spitfirebill
spitfirebill MegaDork
6/30/22 5:53 p.m.

I know somebody that builds race engines and has used their connecting rods.  No knowledge about their struts.  

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
7/3/22 9:59 a.m.
obsolete said:

I just came here to make a dumb joke, but now I'm impressed by the amount of actual useful information in this thread.

Since I'm here, though, I'll say it anyway. Max Pee Ding Rods. There you go.

I was going to ask if anyone had figured out where Grods is.

TurnerX19
TurnerX19 UltraDork
7/3/22 10:25 a.m.

In reply to MadScientistMatt :

Grods is in Latvia cheeky

You'll need to log in to post.

Our Preferred Partners
BQEDQgLosjSiFNUPnKAuBMdWBqsJ89xd6fOkNWbu8O4SuqFwdDFZYBOES21JD2cK