Alright, I've tried writing this post/thread a couple of times... and I've been mulling this purchase for the last three years... basically constantly, with changing specs/requirements. Things have solidified a bit with the recent purchase of the potential LeafyPaperweight, and some acknowledgement from the sleepywife that seating 6-7 would be useful.
Budget is $7-$12k... $15k tops.
The Leaf and my TL are both ~3400#s... which with a tow dolly... means I need a tow rating north of 4000#s. No, I can't do a trailer... there's no place at my house to put one.
I'm going to take advantage of most of y'all being asleep/away to break out my current thinking in individual posts, for possible easier responding. Feel free to add your own suggestions, as well. Plus, I'm interested to hear suggestions on how to attempt to mitigate (ignore?) common issues with these age/mileage vehicles.
Current top of the list is a 2nd Gen Acura MDX.
Pros: 300hp, 3 rows, 5000#s towing, awd.
I'm clearly a Honda fanboi, and 'matching Acura's' has a certain appeal. Sleepywife has found memories of an Aunt's MDX.
Cons: 16/22mpg, so many are black, sheet goods would have to be carried on the roof. Timing belts are recommended every 60-90kmi.
The 2010-2013 apparently have an issue with the block/rings with oil-consumption; but they also have a 6spdAuto. I feel like picking one of these up, could be tempting fate... unless it comes with paperwork that the ring-job has been done?
The 2008-2009 have some minor electrical issues, and the Sport/Advanced have some funky expensive dynamic dampers. Should be easy to avoid those. There's also some complaints about how the autos lockup around 45mph... and flutter a bit? Also, being 12years old, these are commonly &8-10k... but the interior might be shot?
Finding one with a hitch already on is... not real common.
Being a Honda fanboi, the next car on the list is the 2009-2015 Honda Pilot, AWD.
Pros: the Awd is rated at 4500#s towing, seats 8, can probably fit sheet goods inside with the rear hatch unlatched.
Cons: VCM leads to oil consumption. It's a bit bigger/'slower' than the MDX, and they seem to be trading closer to $12-15k. Probably have to get an EX-L to get factory heated seats (any good strategies for adding them to an EX or LX?)
There's some VCM defeat modules out there... but I'm not sure if there are good strategies for clearing out oil accumulation from PO's? Also, timing belts are due every ~90kmi.
Third currently on my list is the ~. 2008- 2013 Toyota Highlander.
Pros: 'Factory Tow Package' bumps tow capacity to 5000#s for FWD and AWD. Better mileage than the Honda's ~20/24-26. Timing chain, so no belt maintenance. Also, the smallest LOA/Width of the bunch; and there are coilovers for the FWD model (shared with the Sienna?).
Cons: Some comments that it drives 'trucklike'. There's some issues with the power rear hatch (can maybe avoid with lower spec?), and electrical gremlins with door chimes, and door closed sensors. Also, finding are verifying the factory tow package may require some extra legwork... especially if FWD? They also seem to be a bit closer to $12k.
I reckon some of y'all would wince at towing 4000#s with FWD?
Fourth on the list - 2014 to 2018 Hyundai Santa Fe / 'XL'
Pros: newer, 5000# tow limit on all of them, heated seats easier to find. GDI = better mpgs. Hyundai depreciation means they're close to the budget.
Cons: bigger (~200in LOA, 78in wide, iirc?). 2014s had an oil issue, apparently less common in 2015.
Again, I'm sure y'all wouldn't like towing with FWD. it looks like nocones has done okay with theirs? Buy a 2014, seafoam and send it?
John Welsh said:
Newer Sequoia purchase in Fairfax County, VA might mean that older Sequoia will be sold soon. Right enough but in the right place?
I'm not sure I want to deal with frame rust any more than Irish44 does
Tim, feel free to delete all these Sequoia post to keep your thread clean
In reply to John Welsh :
nah, no worries. I enjoy getting suggestions, and thinking through them... as long as everyone understands that my 'not seeing it the same as them' is about me having a really odd/different perspective than most.
edit:
this is probably an opportune time to reference this picture from 2018, to help reinforce some of this aforementioned perspective...
The good news is, I've managed to negotiate off-site parking for the Z3. But, I've still got to fit a Leaf, a TL, said 'family car'... and hopefully a challenge car in this space (challenge car probably in the garage).
also, the the TL is effectively the largest car either of us have willingly owned in NoVA. We've both driven a Trailblazer, a Flex, and I've driven the FIL's Ram 1500 quad cab regular bed around our town... and we've not enjoyed any of that. This purchase will serve as backup DD for sleepywife, family trips down to the in-laws, etc. So, we both will need to feel comfortable navigating it through traffic and tight parking lots... which is part of the reason most of what I've scoped out so far is under 200" LOA and 75" width. Yes, this is probably crunching the selection a bit, and might 'not compute' for everyone else.
Final, random, not really an option thought...
2014+ Pathfinder
Pros: I'll get a giggle out of towing a Nissan with a Nissan, they get good mpg, 5000# tow limit. Nissans have depreciation like Hyundai's right now.
Cons: it's a CVT, everyone will tell me I should've gotten the previous gen pathfinder instead. It's over 200". Nissans have depreciation like Hyundai's right now.
can a CVT really tow 5000#s without puking all it's fluids, gears, belts(?) all over the road? Do I really want more Ghosn paranormalities in my driveway?
Its not easy to recommend the CVT Pathfinder. No personal experience, just my perceived reputation. If you do go forward with it, just know that Infiniti first offered the tarted-up twin as the JX35 and then later renamed the QX60. It might be possible to find a low mileage, older Infiniti for cheaper that the same Nissan.
When I bought my Grand Caravan off Hertz last year, the rental fleets had tons of these Pathfinders. Not unlike the Grand Caravan, in 2020 this was a old design still sold as new. I think the model started in 2012. Not really being a market leader in consumer sales, it seemed Nissan pumped a lot of them to the fleets, cheap.
Omission: Mazda CX-9?
Im not sure if this was just overlooked or if it was a style and size omission. I have no personal experience with that model but they seem well reviewed. Also seems to fit squarely in your competition class.
I was going to say Flex sat first but after reading all of your requirements and desires I think Mazda CX-9 is the better fit. The AWD system is actually pretty darn good, it should tow what you want, it has three rows with lots of space, and the engine/trans are pretty durable.
John Welsh said:
Omission: Mazda CX-9?
Im not sure if this was just overlooked or if it was a style and size omission. I have no personal experience with that model but they seem well reviewed. Also seems to fit squarely in your competition class.
CX-9's are rated for 3500#s, afaik. I don't know if that ever got bumped up later in production? I'd dig having the CX-9, because the manu-matic direction matches 'acceleration vector', similar to the way BMW... was(?) setup; not like most Hyundai/Toyota's are setup. But, I don't know of any dolly's that weigh 150#s (and that's assuming I can knock 100#s more out of each car.)
3 row family hauler that can tow and swallow sheet goods for under $10k?
Canyonero
Ah, lower tow rating than the others.
Off the same source my 2019 Grand Caravan has a tow rating of 3600, yet, like mine, trailer hitches are available where the hitch manufacturer rates the hitch for 4,000 lbs. My very occasional use...
sleepyhead the buffalo said:
John Welsh said:
Omission: Mazda CX-9?
Im not sure if this was just overlooked or if it was a style and size omission. I have no personal experience with that model but they seem well reviewed. Also seems to fit squarely in your competition class.
CX-9's are rated for 3500#s, afaik. I don't know if that ever got bumped up later in production? I'd dig having the CX-9, because the manu-matic direction matches 'acceleration vector', similar to the way BMW... was(?) setup; not like most Hyundai/Toyota's are setup. But, I don't know of any dolly's that weigh 150#s (and that's assuming I can knock 100#s more out of each car.)
My old neighbor with 5 kids would load the whole family plus dog up in the CX-9, roof box packed to the gills, and tow an enclosed trailer with dirt bikes in it to the dunes at least a half dozen times a year. I think you'd be just fine towing what you are planning.
In reply to RevRico :
there's no kill quite like...
Our 2017 Santa Fe (V6 AWD) has been good in this role. We have 72k on ours and it hasn't been to the dealer for any unplanned items.
We run 87 octane regular and Typical MPG is ~22 for a normal use of trips that look like 5min <35 mph, 10 min @ 55-70, 5-10 min <35. All highway it's 25-27 depending on speed/wind, and towing the MG I get ~16.5.
Towing is pretty good. It has a 5000lb capacity and importantly a 500lb tongue weight. Many 3 row SUV have 350-400 lb tongue weights for the 5k ratings. Towing it's very stable, the rear suspension is firm enough for a 500lb load, but the suspension is a bit "crashy" when loaded. It probably could benefit from some quality shocks. Hyundai trailer wiring is simple and the bumper has a cover that hides the hitch when not in use. I got everything from E trailer to make it tow and it was a half day to get it all installed.
Ours is an "Ultimate" so it has the captians middle row so it only seats 6. Access, space, and headroom in the 3rd row are good. Storage with the 3rd row up isn't great but is on par with the pilot/highlander/cx-9. Seats down the captains chairs aren't "flat" and the hatch isn't quite 4' wide so plywood goes in the trailer. Long stuff is fine though.
Durability of interior materials has been great with the seats showing minimal wear despite kids that do kid stuff.
I thought it drove way nicer then the pilot/highlander. It isn't sporty, but the engine sounds nice and everything is linear and actually provides some level of feedback.
Find a well cared for one and I don't think you can go wrong.
The other thought is, in the current market, buying any of these for less than $10k is going to be a challenge, certainly not with less than 150k miles. Even $15k might be a push.
So, the shopping might have to be for all of them and then choose the best example that presents itself. Less about choosing and more about choosing from what's available.
My guess is the Korean is the easiest to find for the price.
In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :
On a more serious note, the Lexus SUVs, rx whatever series, were showing up in Florida with decent miles under $10k a couple months ago when I was looking to replace the Ranger. Basically a highlander. Might be an outside option worth considering.
Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:
sleepyhead the buffalo said:
John Welsh said:
Omission: Mazda CX-9?
Im not sure if this was just overlooked or if it was a style and size omission. I have no personal experience with that model but they seem well reviewed. Also seems to fit squarely in your competition class.
CX-9's are rated for 3500#s, afaik. I don't know if that ever got bumped up later in production? I'd dig having the CX-9, because the manu-matic direction matches 'acceleration vector', similar to the way BMW... was(?) setup; not like most Hyundai/Toyota's are setup. But, I don't know of any dolly's that weigh 150#s (and that's assuming I can knock 100#s more out of each car.)
My old neighbor with 5 kids would load the whole family plus dog up in the CX-9, roof box packed to the gills, and tow an enclosed trailer with dirt bikes in it to the dunes at least a half dozen times a year. I think you'd be just fine towing what you are planning.
I think, if I'm reading this right, y'all are recommending the CX-9 as long as I fettle a transcooler, fit the front/rear StopTech brake kits, add coilovers and 18x9's with 275's... right?
#AllMyCarsDoOneLap
sleepyhead the buffalo said:
Third currently on my list is the ~. 2008- 2013 Toyota Highlander.
Pros: 'Factory Tow Package' bumps tow capacity to 5000#s for FWD and AWD. Better mileage than the Honda's ~20/24-26. Timing chain, so no belt maintenance. Also, the smallest LOA/Width of the bunch; and there are coilovers for the FWD model (shared with the Sienna?).
Cons: Some comments that it drives 'trucklike'.
Seems like you want a vehicle that can do truck-like things, then this could hardly be considered a flaw. I suspect that the Highlander could do what you need it to do.
That said, I've been quite happy with my 2019 Mazda CX-9, and a guy I walked past in the Post Office parking lot said, "Nice truck."
RevRico said:
In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :
On a more serious note, the Lexus SUVs, rx whatever series, were showing up in Florida with decent miles under $10k a couple months ago when I was looking to replace the Ranger. Basically a highlander. Might be an outside option worth considering.
Unfortunately, the RX's are two-row only, afaik. Otherwise, I'd probably be hunting down an ~2010 RX450h as hard as possible.
In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :
For many years there have been Hybrid Highlanders. Are they 3 row? Can they tow?
John Welsh said:
In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :
For many years there have been Hybrid Highlanders. Are they 3 row? Can they tow?
There are. They're rated at 3500#s as well, iirc. Which I maybe shouldn't worry about... but that's a hybrid CVT. Pretty sure it's a planetary setup. But, I'm not sure if the same formula for "don't worry, be happy towing" works? Can you add a cvt cooler? Should you also add a battery cooler?
