What happened to Spec Miata?

I just read that a big chunk of the top 10 SM cars were penalized at the runoffs for cylinder head discrepancies and sent to the bottom of the finishing order. Anyone have details?

i am going to guess someone is following in this mans footsteps.

http://mazdaracers.com/topic/4768-everything-runoffs-2014/page-21#entry66967

In reply to amg_rx7:

interesting. it seems everyone used a head built by one builder? and thought they were legal but they really weren't?

Just jumped on there to read a little bit... 142 members and 30 guests reading this thread!

racerfink wrote: Just jumped on there to read a little bit... 142 members and 30 guests reading this thread!

I mean when they dq the top 7 racers of an event for the same issue, it is interesting.

My brother and I spent the weekend at the runoffs. What we heard was something about the 9th-place car protesting the 1-8 cars, but since I'm not a Miata owner we went off looking at all the cool cars in the pits. Great weekend overall with several exciting races!

The race announcers said a protest re cylinder heads would be underway before the SM race even started. Correct me if I'm wrong but that race was called live, afaik.

I am no expert on this, but from what I've heard, this is a series that should really be running some re-manufactured crate engines sealed from Mazda, or something similar.

Don't know if it's true, but I remember hearing that the top SM guys are spending way more on trick engines than the Playboy Cup sealed Mazda engines.

Ridiculous.

Plus, having rules like this just breeds rules creep that eventually results in everyone cheating if they can afford it. Sounds like it finally caught up to the top teams though.

amg_rx7 wrote: http://mazdaracers.com/topic/4768-everything-runoffs-2014/page-21#entry66967

Good Lord, what a drama-fest. There's a variety of reasons that I don't road race and there's several there. Sheez, and people say they do this for "fun?"

You think that is bad you should see how they are on track.

I always wondered why they did not have a dyno at these races. Put each car on the dyno and test it then impound the cars until they are called to grid.

IMO for a spec series they should be only running a sealed crate engine like the ASA Late Model and nascar dirt series uses.

I read a few of the posts on the mazdaracers board, one of which was written by one of the disqualified racers. Apparently there was a particular machining operation (deshrouding the valves, I think) that the top builders thought was legal, but actually wasn't. This is a scenario I've seen played out many times in my 30 years with the club.

We did "stock" race engines in boat racing and there is always a way to cheat. We were inspected, and we ran to the edge of the rule book, but never cheated. We all knew who was running "hot" fuel (you could smell it) and whose engines were cheated (pull the liners and port the inside out of view of an inspectors eyes or mirror,) because they sounded different pulling down the straight. The issue is, in some series, to catch some of this stuff you have to take things way down and send samples off.

You can get "sealed stock" engines (read that engine built to spec) but then the single source spec builder just starts price creep and you start loosing participants that way.

IMHO Spec series are great the first few years then everyone starts figuring out ways to cheat.

Here's a quote from a guy I know who ran at the front of SM in my region:

"A good SM head is only $500 but it costs $2000 to make it look legal".

I can't afford "cost controlled racing" which is one of the reasons I'm in a P2 car. Small fields, yes, but stock $2500 Hayabusa motors. We make some of it up with the ridiculous tire consumption rate though.

Claiming rule. Problem solved.

jstein77 wrote: I read a few of the posts on the mazdaracers board, one of which was written by one of the disqualified racers. Apparently there was a particular machining operation (deshrouding the valves, I think) that the top builders thought was legal, but actually wasn't. This is a scenario I've seen played out many times in my 30 years with the club.

At least one of the builders is also on the SM action committee and thusly part of the rules making process. Stretching the rules is normal and is done all the time. But, why push the limits when you're part of the group that actually defines the limits? The people who oversee and/or compete in SM created this pile and I am perversely enjoying (just a little bit) the embarrassment they have heaped upon themselves.

Specifying sealed motors may be an answer but that will negatively affect the financials of builders, except for the one that wins the contract. That's too damn bad because if they had demanded a clarification of the rules they would still get to play in the sandbox.

And people wondered why I moved to FProd when they steam-rolled the 1.6L's.

We dyno in Spec E30. Seems to keep the cost and stupidity out of our little series.

OTOH I can see how turning your engine over to a 'builder' requires a high level of trust. One of our E30 guys just got disqualified because of an illegal fuel pressure regulator. Everyone thought it was, but the part number didn't match the book. The guy is certainly good enough (and has proven it) that he didn't need a little Bosch part to help him. Engine builder had installed it without his knowledge, and it cost him a podium finish at nationals.

look at all the DQ's at the NASA east coast nationals … mostly for drivers that had been legal for yrs … and suddenly their dyno readings can't be replicated … some even DQ'ed with no reason given (or so I've read … wasn't there, didn't see for myself… they wanted too much money even if you were a NASA member)

The best thing they could do to Spec Miata, is change the tire size to the stock 14" wheel. A 185/60-14 tire would negate a lot of horsepower gain over a stock motor.

racerfink wrote: The best thing they could do to Spec Miata, is change the tire size to the stock 14" wheel. A 185/60-14 tire would negate a lot of horsepower gain over a stock motor. Am I missing something?

I am unsure how that would change anything really. The miata is still a car that spends large chunks of time at max throttle, so it will always by very dependent on engine power. Slower cornering speeds wont change that.

stroker wrote: Claiming rule. Problem solved.

That sure worked well for years in AMA motorcycle racing!

A buddy that's built more than one national championship winning motor goes to great lengths to insure his are legal. He doesn't build them in great numbers, usually just for people he knows, and they typically cost less than a lot of the others.

Without naming names, he did build a spec Miata motor once, and pulled out a well known one to do it. On tear down, it was illegal, and clearly so. This was more than $12k to get an illegal motor. Personally I would have been furious, but I'm sure it felt good to drive it.

Back when Spec Miata was first introduced, you had to buy a sealed unit from Mazda. To me, this is the real answer. It's far cheaper than building or buying one elsewhere. Sure there will be differences, but you its the only real answer I can think of. Maybe a dyno pull for the top 5 at big events would also help.