Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
1/17/11 7:16 a.m.

I have been mentally planning what is needed to drop a vetted up L33 into a tiny car but I can't quite see the necessity for 6 gears or the extra weight and size of a T-56.

What is available to beef the internals of a T5 to take a 400ft/lb of torque load reliably in road racing conditions? Can humans afford it?

Is there a strong, small, light (relative) option I am ignoring? I only mention the T5 because it fits everything and is a top loader for easy linkage in a swap.

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
1/17/11 7:40 a.m.

Your Answer
-or- You could use a TKO-500.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
1/17/11 9:05 a.m.

Thanks! Do you have any experience with these guys or is your google-fu just stronger than mine?

They are close enough for me to call semi-local which I like when dealing with stuff that costs a ton to ship around.

HiTempguy
HiTempguy HalfDork
1/17/11 9:23 a.m.

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

And just for you (it may be more expensive now), the 2007 price guide!

http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/pdfs/07%20price%20book_no%20longs.pdf

Only $2k for a brand new T5 with helical synchronized kit. Holy E36 M3, that is cheap! BRB, buying RX7 and L33!

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
1/17/11 9:33 a.m.
HiTempguy wrote: Only $2k for a brand new T5 with helical synchronized kit. Holy E36 M3, that is cheap! BRB, buying RX7 and L33!

I was thinking of an $800 MGB GT with dog rings and straight cut whine but... yeah!

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
1/17/11 9:36 a.m.

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

I don't have any direct experience with them, but a lot of vintage mustang guy's use them to beef up their T-5's because they fit the stang better than any of the other choices. They have a good reputation. Just don't buy a new T-5 and then send it to them, or you'll be spending way too much. Send a core or just buy it from them. I don't know if hitemp was serious or sarcastic about the price, but considering that a new T-5 is around $1200, $2000 for the G-Force is a pretty good price.

Ranger50
Ranger50 HalfDork
1/17/11 9:50 a.m.

G-Force is the only upgrade option out there for a T5. With that said, you will spend easily $12-1500 for the geartrain then it will need to be assembled for at least $200 more. For another $3-600, you can get a NEW TKO. If you troll the various stang boards, you can get a 3550/TKO2/TKO500/TKO600 for $8-1500 usually with an AM shifter and Ford bell. T5 pricing is here: Click Me.

JMO, but I would look for the TKO2/TKO600, as they have the GM 26 spline input shaft. But then again if you can only get a Ford 10 spline input, it isn't a big deal really for a clutch.

If you are looking for a stopgap, the T5 will work for the time being, even with 400ft/#'s of torque. You just have to drive like a old person. I mean it was originally made for mid 70's 4 cyl Volvo.....

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
1/17/11 10:01 a.m.
Ranger50 wrote: You just have to drive like a old person.

As an "old person" - the dog ring and straight cut gear talk in my above post should indicate that might not be the best advice you could give me

RossD
RossD Dork
1/17/11 10:03 a.m.
Ranger50 wrote: If you are looking for a stopgap, the T5 will work for the time being, even with 400ft/#'s of torque. You just have to drive like a old person. I mean it was originally made for mid 70's 4 cyl Volvo.....

I thought the first use was in '82 for AMC Spirt/Concord/Eagle. The mid 70s could have been the 4 speed SR4 and then the T-4, which are in the blood line of the T-5, so to speak.

aussiesmg
aussiesmg SuperDork
1/17/11 10:06 a.m.

A very good option, but not cheap either

http://www.keislerauto.com/

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
1/17/11 10:17 a.m.

In reply to RossD:

The 4 cylinder T-5 isn't the same as the T-5 used in V-8 applications. Plus, keep in mind that the 330 lb-ft rating of the T-5 "Z" trans is Fords rating after a 24 hour test cycle, not a peak torque rating. And the torque the trans sees is limited to the level of traction the tires can provide.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
1/17/11 10:18 a.m.

Not that $2k for the T5 internals is cheap - but the options for a true road racing box from someone like Hewland are HUGE money so comparatively speaking it's reasonable.

I can't find prices on the Keisler Tremecs but I'm betting $3k or more.

RANT: I hate the "Call for a quote" nonsense on a website. Why do they think people go there? To listen to bad music? To read about the founder? WTF. When I click the damn order button I do not want to just be re-routed t the Request a Quote link. If I wanted to do that I'd call the phone number. END RANT.

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
1/17/11 10:20 a.m.

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

I feel your pain, brother.

ClemSparks
ClemSparks SuperDork
1/17/11 10:40 a.m.

It probably has to do with fluctuating prices from the manufacturer. Or at least it could be that, in part.

Clem

TurboDogsDad
TurboDogsDad New Reader
1/17/11 10:41 a.m.

You can get the conversion bellhousing from V8R or FM. L33 with a T5 is the basis for the V8Spec Miata class V8R is trying to get off the ground. Several options out there besides G-Force for sturdy T5s- Modern Driveline is one that we are working with.

aussiesmg
aussiesmg SuperDork
1/17/11 10:41 a.m.

Keisler sell a lot on eBay

Not so expensive either, $1500

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KEISLER-RS400-5-speed-GM-Transmission-Deal-Year-/150540444508?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item230ce8e35c

or 500 ft lbs, $1800

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Keisler-RS500-5-Speed-Overdrive-Deal-Year-/150545408151?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item230d34a097

Strike_Zero
Strike_Zero HalfDork
1/17/11 10:45 a.m.

Doesn't "Call for a quote" universally mean too berkeleying expensive??

oldtin
oldtin Dork
1/17/11 10:58 a.m.

For something like a v8 mgb, unless you're thinking box flares, you may not have enough grip to worry about the torque the transmission can take.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
1/17/11 11:03 a.m.
oldtin wrote: For something like a v8 mgb, unless you're thinking box flares, you may not have enough grip to worry about the torque the transmission can take.

Oh, I am thinking all kinds of terrible thoughts. I am thinking them... and planning for them... but I am not executing on any of them at the moment. Whatever I build next is going to be more/better/faster than I have now - and my E30 is pretty tough on driveline components as it is. I'm laying out the budget for ideals and then trimming for reality ;)

Ranger50
Ranger50 HalfDork
1/17/11 11:05 a.m.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Not that $2k for the T5 internals is cheap - but the options for a true road racing box from someone like Hewland are HUGE money so comparatively speaking it's reasonable. I can't find prices on the Keisler Tremecs but I'm betting $3k or more. RANT: I hate the "Call for a quote" nonsense on a website. Why do they think people go there? To listen to bad music? To read about the founder? WTF. When I click the damn order button I do not want to just be re-routed t the Request a Quote link. If I wanted to do that I'd call the phone number. END RANT.

Agreed, but I would do a Liberty Gears face plated TKO for piece of mind. Especially if you are already prepared to spend 2k on a "marginal" transmission.

I wouldn't pee on Shafi if he was on fire. He makes no market parts and charges a fortune for them because of that. His "super duper" RS trans is nothing more then a T45 with a different front cover to use with a non-Mustang bellhousing. Total POS.

As for your rant, it is to see if you are serious or not. If you aren't, they will quote something just off the wall. Plus depending on where it is going will determine shipping costs.

dj06482
dj06482 Reader
1/17/11 11:11 a.m.

Depending on the weight of the vehicle and how you're going to be using it, a stock T5 might be able to hold up to a lot of abuse. Things like heavy vehicles, sticky tires, severe launches, steep rear gears, and powershifting tend to lead them to an early demise. An aftermarket shifter is a must for a T5, as they don't include internal stops. Steeda's Tri-Ax, MGW, and the Pro5.0 shifter seem to be the most popular with the Mustang crowd. I've owned the Steeda Tri-Ax and a Hurst aftermarket shifter for the T5 and preferred the Tri-Ax. You can get a good used one for ~90 shipped (just sold one for that price about a year ago).

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
1/17/11 11:19 a.m.
dj06482 wrote: Depending on the weight of the vehicle and how you're going to be using it, a stock T5 might be able to hold up to a lot of abuse.

Less than 2000lbs, full slicks, track-only. I think it would probably be ok on longer tracks with less slow corners but it will always be in the back of my head as the weak link.

Ranger50
Ranger50 HalfDork
1/17/11 11:23 a.m.

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

With that said, a stock T5, with an AM shifter, will work just fine. You will just have to not miss shifts or you will be replacing synchros and sliders all the time.

Weight and traction are your enemies with a T5.

dj06482
dj06482 Reader
1/17/11 11:54 a.m.

+1 on everything Ranger50 said, I'd run the stock one until it blows up. And then buy another stock one...

You're about 200 lbs under what an FFR weighs (and about 1000 under the lightest Fox body Mustang), so I would think a V8 T5 transmission would do just fine...

aussiesmg
aussiesmg SuperDork
1/17/11 1:58 p.m.

I have to say it was the 8.8 that blew up in the $2010 S10, not the damaged T5 with no synchros on 2nd or 3rd with a 500 hp 500 ft lbs engine

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