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Hoppps
Hoppps Reader
3/2/24 7:46 a.m.

Just some random thoughts while sipping my coffee this morning - is there one car that stands out as being the best overall at autocross?

I know a lot will depend on class and pax score, but if someone new came to you and asked what's the best car, what would you say?

For fun, here's a hillclimb car that came out to our last event in middle GA!

ddavidv
ddavidv UltimaDork
3/2/24 7:47 a.m.

How is the answer not The Answer?

84FSP
84FSP UberDork
3/2/24 7:50 a.m.

LOL I always tell folks the answer or most any Corvette.

RonnieFnD
RonnieFnD HalfDork
3/2/24 7:52 a.m.

Audi TTs has the biggest built in rules advantage I've ever seen.  

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
3/2/24 8:42 a.m.

I know, not the answer you're looking for:

the one with the best driver. 

porschenut
porschenut Dork
3/2/24 8:46 a.m.

Best is the 

-fastest in class?

-fastest overall?

-cheapest to buy/maintain?

-most fun to drive?

feel free to add parameters.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
3/2/24 8:51 a.m.

What do mean by "competitive"?

 

FTD every weekend?  Cheapest car to win class?  Fastest Stock class car?  Best car to win the Challenge and win at the rest of the events you go to? Easiest to build at home?  
 

Too many variables to answer given the number of categories and classes available to race in for a simple answer. 

bludroptop
bludroptop UltraDork
3/2/24 8:53 a.m.

Define "competitive".

It doesn't mean fastest... that's easy - just look at raw times.

I think you could make a case for SSC.  Spec class - not a lot of opportunity to gain equipment advantage.  Top 10 cars at Solo Nationals separated by about 1 second.   STX can be pretty tight at the top too.   And I didn't look at every class, but when how much you ate for lunch separates the top 5 cars...

that's competitive.

theruleslawyer
theruleslawyer New Reader
3/2/24 9:54 a.m.

In reply to bludroptop :

As long as you have a big enough field locally. I think spec classes in general are going to be the best competition.

1) You want the class to be big- racing the same 2 guys every weekend isn't as fun.

2) The class attracts top talent- So probably not slower classes if they're not dominated by something traditionally a sports car. Class size at nationals might be a good proxy.

3) You need a car that regularly trophies at the national level

4) That car should be common enough that the scca board isn't going to F it by moving classes. If some weird low production car is winning all the time it'll get reclassed.

I don't know that there is a better answer than the answer generally for autox. The new spec miata class sounds really interesting if it takes off. I'm not personally interested in stock classes.

dps214
dps214 SuperDork
3/2/24 10:05 a.m.
RonnieFnD said:

Audi TTs has the biggest built in rules advantage I've ever seen.  

Okay I'll bite. I have no idea what you're referring to. And I guess nobody else does either since like three people total have put any real effort into running them.

RonnieFnD
RonnieFnD HalfDork
3/2/24 10:41 a.m.
dps214 said:
RonnieFnD said:

Audi TTs has the biggest built in rules advantage I've ever seen.  

Okay I'll bite. I have no idea what you're referring to. And I guess nobody else does either since like three people total have put any real effort into running them.

They run in STH and have a pretty massive advantage that makes them super fast. Take a golf r, runs in stx I believe but a TTs which is the same car but lighter runs down in STH with Ford focus ST, GTI...you know the typical FWD hot hatch.  They make 288hp, AWD, crazy adjustable from the factory.   It's basically every other car modded out to the limits of the class except its still stock so you can go further with it and it's AWD.  With the right driver they are amazing to watch run, last time we had someone show up with one he waffle stomped us all by like 7 seconds lol.

RonnieFnD
RonnieFnD HalfDork
3/2/24 10:50 a.m.

In reply to dps214 :

This is a couple years old but it's from here just to give a lil context

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/audi-tt-for-sth-autocross/151443/page1/

Cyclone03
Cyclone03 New Reader
3/2/24 11:04 a.m.

I know where a Wells Coyote hill climb ,PP history ,is sitting and for sale.....all aluminum tube frame.

To answer the question "not the one I drive".

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/2/24 5:20 p.m.

Miatas punch above their weight more than any other car in autocross, being small and light with good suspension geometry makes them inherently very good at it, and will let them set raw times on par with cars that would walk away from them on most tracks.

dps214
dps214 SuperDork
3/2/24 5:55 p.m.
RonnieFnD said:
dps214 said:
RonnieFnD said:

Audi TTs has the biggest built in rules advantage I've ever seen.  

Okay I'll bite. I have no idea what you're referring to. And I guess nobody else does either since like three people total have put any real effort into running them.

They run in STH and have a pretty massive advantage that makes them super fast. Take a golf r, runs in stx I believe but a TTs which is the same car but lighter runs down in STH with Ford focus ST, GTI...you know the typical FWD hot hatch.  They make 288hp, AWD, crazy adjustable from the factory.   It's basically every other car modded out to the limits of the class except its still stock so you can go further with it and it's AWD.  With the right driver they are amazing to watch run, last time we had someone show up with one he waffle stomped us all by like 7 seconds lol.

Not an expert but the internet says 220-230hp and heavy. They are awd but still very front biased and front heavy. At the national level the class has been won by fwd cars multiple times even with a well driven TT in the field.

RonnieFnD
RonnieFnD HalfDork
3/2/24 6:09 p.m.
dps214 said:
RonnieFnD said:
dps214 said:
RonnieFnD said:

Audi TTs has the biggest built in rules advantage I've ever seen.  

Okay I'll bite. I have no idea what you're referring to. And I guess nobody else does either since like three people total have put any real effort into running them.

They run in STH and have a pretty massive advantage that makes them super fast. Take a golf r, runs in stx I believe but a TTs which is the same car but lighter runs down in STH with Ford focus ST, GTI...you know the typical FWD hot hatch.  They make 288hp, AWD, crazy adjustable from the factory.   It's basically every other car modded out to the limits of the class except its still stock so you can go further with it and it's AWD.  With the right driver they are amazing to watch run, last time we had someone show up with one he waffle stomped us all by like 7 seconds lol.

Not an expert but the internet says 220-230hp and heavy. They are awd but still very front biased and front heavy. At the national level the class has been won by fwd cars multiple times even with a well driven TT in the field.

288 is what the audi dealer I work at says.  Over 400 easy with simple mods, we have one sitting in the the shop currently.  I know they aren't winning the Nats and not widely used or utilized either because they are 60k for a new one in a sea of 25k used cars.  Here is the crazy fast one that won the state Champs here.  Freaking car does 4wd burnouts on concrete when taking off.  This car is awesome.

 

Teh E36 M3
Teh E36 M3 UltraDork
3/2/24 6:15 p.m.

A rental Honda fit?

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
3/2/24 6:20 p.m.

I think the question was:

"Given one driver and a car that came out of the showroom, on the same tire and the same  experienced driver, what machine would be the fastest around the cones?

 

Autocross rules to a bystander are about as clear as Cricket rules to an American.  What exactly is PAX by the way? 

chandler
chandler MegaDork
3/2/24 6:57 p.m.
NOHOME said:

I think the question was:

"Given one driver and a car that came out of the showroom, on the same tire and the same  experienced driver, what machine would be the fastest around the cones?

 

Autocross rules to a bystander are about as clear as Cricket rules to an American.  What exactly is PAX by the way? 

Phastest Auto Crosser?

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/2/24 7:11 p.m.

In reply to NOHOME :

PAX is a score based on your time adjusted by class intended to allow comparisons between times in different classes.

I think of any showroom car the fastest overall in autocross would be something with a huge power-to-weight ratio and lots of grip, likely either a supercar/high-end sports car or possibly a performance-oriented EV.

Lof8 - Andy
Lof8 - Andy GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
3/2/24 7:16 p.m.

under $2k in it with a 2zz (plus $300 for tires). Has earned $1k in tire rack bucks.  Several local FTD awards (stickers).  I'm not saying it's the best, but it's a really good value. 

ojannen
ojannen HalfDork
3/2/24 8:08 p.m.

There are some cars that have had long runs of dominance in the higher prep classes.  The drivers are usually close to top time of day and top pax. The Kiesel sprite comes to mind.  John Thomas also won about 10 championships in a row in an e-prepared Honda.  The blue and white gt350 associated with Mike Maier has been around forever and has won across multiple decades.

dps214
dps214 SuperDork
3/2/24 10:11 p.m.

In reply to RonnieFnD :

Did some more googling...288hp is the TT-S which is classed in STU. STH is the normal TT which is 220-230 depending on year. In any case 7s is much more a case of driver quality or prep quality, not the base vehicle.

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
3/2/24 10:52 p.m.
GameboyRMH said:

In reply to NOHOME :

PAX is a score based on your time adjusted by class intended to allow comparisons between times in different classes.
 

 

I take it back. Cricket rules are self explanatory by comparison.wink

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
3/2/24 11:55 p.m.

An F-mod.

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