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P3PPY
P3PPY GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/21/23 9:11 a.m.
Tom1200 said:
wspohn said:

Some of us that 'got it' tried to discuss this with those that didn't (many of which never would figure it out) but most of them just kept on sliding around and wearing out tires, wondering why the quiet guys that looked like they were going more slowly were posting faster times than they did.

Or take up vintage racing and or drive a Formula 600.

A friend calls my driving style in the Datsun 1200 slippery smooth; whenever I rethink my 4 wheel drifty loose is fast style, I watch Goodwood and the worlds top professionals drive the cars in the same style so I stick with it.

Old cars on skinny bias ply tires dance around; they are fast that way.

F600 is peculiar in that you can chuck the cars around and still be very fast; they are pretty much lay down TQ midgets. Interestingly the Indy RunOffs was a battle between traditional tidy driver and a driver who hurled his car around like a rally car.....they were turning identical lap times.

Note I didn't drive my modern sports race in this manner but some cars lend themselves to being chucked about.

I'd love to better understand those driving differences. Do you happen to know of a good clip from the Indy Runoffs to demonstrate that?

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
11/21/23 12:36 p.m.

In reply to P3PPY :

This is Sven de Vries versus Ryan Mayfield; Ryan chucks the car about like mad yet they run very tightly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KomklYKJ1Gc&t=1170s

P3PPY
P3PPY GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/21/23 12:47 p.m.

In reply to Tom1200 :

How about that! So apparently my love of sliding isn't inherently what makes me so slow around a course. This requires some further investigation on my part >:)

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
11/21/23 1:06 p.m.

In reply to P3PPY :

Here is another one; the camera car is an Alfa GTV, he drives neat and tidy. I'm right in front of him with the red 1200 coupe. You'll notice I fling the car about like a fiend.  He simply bided his time and then motored past me at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wExUqiK5OU8

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 PowerDork
11/21/23 1:09 p.m.

I had a multitude of reasons as to why I did it. I've taken a step away from it for a while due to circumstances but....

1) I grew up around racing in Sebring. I always dreamed of getting on track someway somehow and I do whatever I can to make my dreams come true.

2) It's calming. Whether it's a 20 minute track session in a street car or a 2 hour stint in Champcar. I channel out all the noise of life and am able to simply concentrate on being the fastest driver on the course at that time. It's a moment of pure zen for me, just like surfing. 

3) I'm super competitive. While our Fatcrack Racing team was never competing for an overall win in Champcar, class wins were always within reach. Strategy, consistency, and a bit of luck are all things needed but the first two things were something I could control as the leader of the team. I just had a heard of cats I constantly had to deal with. Anyways, any chance at winning something instantly turns my hyperfocus on. 

4) It's always been a time to get away from work, life, and anything else and enjoy time with friends and family. 

Unfortunately the co-owner of my Champcar team has his head up his own ass and I had my life turned upside down, so I've removed myself from the team to focus on other things in life. I think they guys are still going to race and I might rejoin them later next year. I was simply putting too much time, effort, and money into it but the return on investment in terms of fun and relaxtion weren't there. I don't quit things, like the last race we ran, I drove 5 hours round trip to get a new engine and stayed up all night until 30 minutes before race start getting the new engine running and almost came away with a class win but sometimes you gotta know when to just step away and focus on something else. 

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
11/21/23 1:14 p.m.

In reply to P3PPY :

Aaaaand one more. I show up minute 13:35. Again tidy versus hurl it about. Note the right rear shock mount popped so my car is especially bouncy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtHvOwCJ1FY&t=1243s

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
11/21/23 1:24 p.m.

In reply to DirtyBird222 :

What you experienced is why I decided on a low key effort when I switched from bikes to cars. Things happen in peoples lives and I don't want my fun to be dependent on them.

I'm really liking vintage racing; it's every bit as much about the experience as it is the racing.

I want to win but I'm not willing to put in every waking moment and spare dollar; so I drive my car like a fiend and hope for the best.............it's actually been super fun knowing I'm getting every last bit out of an under powered car. 

Joneasterling
Joneasterling GRM+ Member
1/21/24 2:18 p.m.

Plain and simple... It's the people! I have made some life long friends entering into the world of Motorsports. Everyone you meet at the track has a collective trait you can't find anywhere else in my opinion. Everybody wants to lend a helping hand and everybody supports one another regardless of the situation that arises. It's a wonderful community of like minded, good hearted people. 

zbioguy
zbioguy GRM+ Member
1/21/24 2:43 p.m.

In reply to J.A. Ackley : I grew up next to the Laguna Seca Raceway starting in the early 1960s. Can-AM, IndyCar, Sports Cars, TransAM, you name it, I would be there. I always wanted to have a racecar that I could drive on the street and use as a daily driver. I remember a picture in a Road and Track magazine with a 1969 Corvette and the picture had half racecar and racecar driver and the other half was a car and guy with a briefcase and in a suit. That was going to be me. After graduating from College, I sold my 1969 T-Bird for a used 1971 Datsun 240Z. That was in 1981. The picture above is still that same car and I was at an SCCA Awards Banquet last night to receive my 14th 0r 15th Class Championship trophy. I have raced that car for 42 years now. I love the feeling of the forces on my body like a good roller coaster. I love the competition with good friends. I love driving it to work and seeing the thumbs up from the cars near me. At least three times in the last 20 years, I took the Class Championship trophy to the guy who beat me and I was truly happy for them. I do track days at Laguna Seca, Sears Point, and Willow Springs. I have been around the Portland International Raceway but was only competing in an Autocross in their Paddock. We got to do Parade laps on the track. All bring back great memories and it helps to have a Son that is also addicted to this love of Racing. For the most part, we satisfy our "Need for Speed" on the track with helmets, and safety gear rather than being "That shiny happy person doing Doughnuts in the intersection of a busy street." I do Cars and Coffee and see other cars that would be great to race and have all of the things that they would need but take a look at their tires and you see "NO SIGN" of hard cornering. I know that my car is not a show car and not some amazing race car either. It is what I can afford to keep me in the game. I am always trying to get others to take that chance and try Autocross as a first step into motorsports. You learn those important skills of car control in an environment that is safe for you and your car and it is low cost and the skills that you will learn are priceless when considering that they could save your life on the rain-slick road when someone else screws up. I am 66 years old and the poster on the wall says, "You don't stop Racing when you get Old. You get Old when you Stop Racing!" Right next to that is the Steve McQueen quote "Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." I would agree with that and I know drivers in their 90s that are still beating me. 

Steve Mill

zbioguy
zbioguy GRM+ Memberand New Reader
1/21/24 2:51 p.m.

 I grew up next to the Laguna Seca Raceway starting in the early 1960s. Can-AM, IndyCar, Sports Cars, TransAM, you name it, I would be there. I always wanted to have a racecar that I could drive on the street and use as a daily driver. I remember a picture in a Road and Track magazine with a 1969 Corvette and the picture had half racecar and racecar driver and the other half was a car and guy with a briefcase and in a suit. That was going to be me. After graduating from College, I sold my 1969 T-Bird for a used 1971 Datsun 240Z. That was in 1981. The picture above is still that same car and I was at an SCCA Awards Banquet last night to receive my 14th 0r 15th Class Championship trophy. I have raced that car for 42 years now. I love the feeling of the forces on my body like a good roller coaster. I love the competition with good friends. I love driving it to work and seeing the thumbs up from the cars near me. At least three times in the last 20 years, I took the Class Championship trophy to the guy who beat me and I was truly happy for them. I do track days at Laguna Seca, Sears Point, and Willow Springs. I have been around the Portland International Raceway but was only competing in an Autocross in their Paddock. We got to do Parade laps on the track. All bring back great memories and it helps to have a Son that is also addicted to this love of Racing. For the most part, we satisfy our "Need for Speed" on the track with helmets, and safety gear rather than being "That shiny happy person doing Doughnuts in the intersection of a busy street." I do Cars and Coffee and see other cars that would be great to race and have all of the things that they would need but take a look at their tires and you see "NO SIGN" of hard cornering. I know that my car is not a show car and not some amazing race car either. It is what I can afford to keep me in the game. I am always trying to get others to take that chance and try Autocross as a first step into motorsports. You learn those important skills of car control in an environment that is safe for you and your car and it is low cost and the skills that you will learn are priceless when considering that they could save your life on the rain-slick road when someone else screws up. I am 66 years old and the poster on the wall says, "You don't stop Racing when you get Old. You get Old when you Stop Racing!" Right next to that is the Steve McQueen quote "Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting." I would agree with that and I know drivers in their 90s that are still beating me. 

Steve Mill

zbioguy
zbioguy GRM+ Memberand New Reader
1/21/24 6:04 p.m.

In reply to RonnieFnD :

I have been doing that with the same car for 42 years now. I love the people and the variety of cars and trucks. Super good bunch of guys and gals of all ages. Just was at the Awards Banquet for 2023 last night. Class Championship #14. Steve Mill 

zbioguy
zbioguy GRM+ Memberand New Reader
2/15/24 2:23 p.m.

I continue to drive and race my 1971 Datsun 240Z. I was the Class Champion this last year for the Heritage Classic Street class in SCCA Sacramento. We are not getting cars for that class yet, and have been going to Cars and Coffees and trying to get cars that would be perfect for that class to sign up. Many of the older sports cars have stopped coming because they were put into a class that physically fits, but because of advancements in technology over the years, really don't fit at all. My car when I first raced it in SCCA Autocross was in CS (C Stock) I ran against other stock street cars of the same size and class. (I am questioning the Lotus 7 that beat me in my first-ever Autocross back in 1981) ; ) I started modifying my car and was bumped up to ASP (A Street Prepared). That was a fast class and when the Viper came into production, that was where they put it. I went to BSP the home of the C4 Corvettes. Still got my butt kicked. I moved to the Sacramento Region and saw cars with similar modifications running in FP (F Prepared). These were pure Race Cars and what I had was a street car registered for the street and driven on the street. As the number of cars signing up for that class decreased, I was getting higher up in the finishing order and before too long was taking home the top three Class Championship trophies. I was racing against other modified Datsun 240Zs, TR-6, Porsche 914s, and sometimes a BMW 325i. It was the most fun because of the variety and the close competition with close friends. I quite often won my class, but the number of cars was dropping in this class. XS-B was a new class with modified Streetcars on 200 treadwear tires. The cars were similar in many ways to my car, but much newer and I started noticing the big disadvantage I was up against. My car was 50 years old and had no power steering, power or antilock brakes, no rev limiter, and ancient suspension limitations. While my competition could add a Turbo Charger to a first-gen Miata and have a relatively modern sports car with 250 horsepower to the ground. My 50+ year old race car/ street car couldn't come close to being competitive. People loved seeing it and hearing it, but not being close in pace made it a lot less fun. That caused other older cars to stop showing up and SCCA decided to make it more fair for these older cars by starting a Heritage Classic Street class for 1974 and older sports cars other than cars from the USA with some modifications, but still were street legal with bumpers, turn signals, seats for two or four (depending on the stock car) and on 200 treadwear tires. Great Idea, but not getting people to bring them out yet. They also have Heritage Classic Race for vintage race cars other than those from the USA. It was only our first year and I do hope that we see 914s, TR-6, and more Datsuns this next season. 

I_dunno
I_dunno New Reader
2/16/24 8:30 a.m.
DjGreggieP said:

I enjoy visualizing how things could go together, and having near zero artistic skill, putting parts together and getting the finished product is very rewarding. 

The researching to figure out IF something could work is also fun. 

I'm glad you said that. You've identified what I couldn't find myself about myself. 

Kind of hard to describe but for me it's also that feeling when the car is on that edge of oversteer and understeer and you feel you got everything the car was willing to give. 

theruleslawyer
theruleslawyer New Reader
2/16/24 9:29 a.m.

Motorsport is a very zen like thing for me. You have such focus that everything else just falls away. Its just you and the next curve. I seem to be drawn to skill based activities that can kill you though.

drock25too
drock25too HalfDork
2/16/24 1:08 p.m.

First time I remember being at a race track, I was probably 5 or 6. Went to a dirt track in Altus, Oklahoma with my dad and uncle and I was hooked. Only thing I remember was a blue Plymouth with tall tail fins the announcer kept calling the Pink Bob Costascat and asking dad why they were calling a blue car that. Several years later, talking to both of them, they finally told me he was sponsored by a "club" on the outskirts of town. Worked on my first pit crew when I was 15 or 16. Dad and I built my first dirt car when I was 18.  Ran my own dirt cars until I was 25 when Dad passed away. Just wasn't the same with out him. Park my stuff and five years later started helping B.W. with his dream. We've raced dirt late models and modifieds all over the country. We used to joke about seeing America, one racetrack at a time. I ran a few races here and there over the years and my first two road courses in 2019.  Thirty years, close to 100 race wins, 3 track championships, and 1000's of people we've met over the years, it's the people. Rivalries turned into lifelong friendships. People you've raced against for years but barely know showing up when you lose someone. Going to check to see if the new kid that just crashed his first race car, on the first lap of his first race, is okay and helping him get the car back together so he can race. We're all family, some you like better than others, and there is always that weird guy no one is quite sure about. But we're family. 

accordionfolder
accordionfolder UltraDork
2/16/24 5:49 p.m.

Why do you motorsport?

Why is water wet?

BlueLightning
BlueLightning GRM+ Memberand New Reader
4/7/24 9:50 a.m.

Learning something new.  Every time I go out.  Whether how to attack a slalom, how the suspension on the Miata next to me is set up (or more likely why they need hex keys to adjust it and what they are trying to achieve), or figuring out why my car won't start.  And there is a wee bit of a thrill to reduce your lap times slowly over the day.  Which has some performance anxiety to do so, as well.  But the learning something new is the most consistent drug and keeps me coming back.

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