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Argo1
Argo1 GRM+ Memberand Dork
2/17/14 8:38 p.m.

As I explained previously, I get to spend time with a wide variety of GRMish type cars. These are all fun cars that mere mortals can afford. I use the yardstick of what an equipped new Miata would cost. Using that as the price standard, what are the used options for something a bit higher up the food chain for the same money? How do they stack up?

If you are looking for 0-60 times, specs, etc. you will have to look on Google for one of the many road tests. I will just share what each car is like to live with, in daily use, for a month or so. The good stuff and the annoyances. I will stick with later model cars that should have the expectation of reliable daily use. Impressions of the cars will be posted here with the full archive at www.alsoranracing.com.

As I have said before, I promise no boring cars and nothing that gets above the $30s for fair market price. These are strictly my opinions, your mileage may vary. Here we go:

What resides in the garage this month is a Lexus ISF. This particular car is a 2009 model with a bit over 30K miles. Nice examples are commonly available in the mid to upper $30s. A little pricier than I usually review but I couldn't resist. This car is Lexus' shot at the M3, AMG, RS4 crowd. That's a tough crowd. Let's see how it does:

Expectations are pretty high for a car of this type. Pressing the start button produces a delicious, pitch perfect, but subdued V8 burble out of the quad pipes. This is a sweet motor. There is no lack of power with the 400+ under the hood. The car is not available with a manual transmission. That is somewhat disappointing. I am not an automatic fan. Having said that, this is a pretty darn good automatic. It's an 8-speed so there's a whole lot of shifting going on but it never feels like it's hunting for a gear like the lousy Chrysler 8-speeds. In fact, it seems pretty intuitive. Brake hard and bank onto a freeway entrance and it is ready and in the proper gear for blasting up the ramp.

However, once on to that freeway, things are not so rosy. The ride is spine crushing hard. An unexpected sharp dip could mean a chiropractic visit. A long trip in this car would be torture. I don't mind a firm ride but give me a break! I was actually afraid to switch to "Sport" mode. It reminds me of 60's and 70's Detroit cars when the only way they could figure out to make them handle was rock hard springs. The car's ultra low profile tires don't help either.

The car has very good grip to show for the hard ride but gives up at the front when pushed. The big brakes are confidence inspiring and easy to modulate. The steering is accurate and quick but the electric power steering is completely devoid of feel. Once I did press the sport mode, the biggest change was sharpening up the transmission with quicker shifts and holding gears longer. The transmission can be manually shifted with the paddles, and in sport mode, it snaps off the changes quick enough that it isn't annoying. With 8 speeds you will be busy shifting. In normal driving there is a gear indicator near the top of the cluster that changes as the car shifts. Oddly, when you put it in manual mode that changes to a big "F" and the gear indicator moves down lower and smaller on the dash next to a big "M" for manual mode. It's like Lexus is trying but doesn't really "get it" on how to do a performance vehicle.

The whole car is a dichotomy of isolated luxury car and hard core performance. Take the ride for example. It is hard enough that I think even performance minded enthusiasts would object to it. However it is very quiet with road noise (and feel) subdued to luxury standards. Strange. Aside from the ride, the cabin is a nice place to be. High quality fit and finish is evident throughout. The well bolstered seats were not the most comfortable that I have encountered with the lumbar support too high up the seat back. I was left wishing for the standard IS350.

Until I mashed the gas. The V8 is an outstanding engine that mates well with the transmission. The noise that it makes is wonderful. Not loud, but perfect. There is more than enough acceleration any time you want it. It does come with a price. The ISF swills fuel like a business jet. Without any cylinder deactivation or other trickery, it returned an average of 14.3 mpg which just isn't PC anymore. The Tech that I spoke with suggested a right foot calibration. Fair enough. However, I drive all these cars in a similar manner so the comparisons are valid. The German competitors are more economical.

One of the advantages of purchasing a car like this is to take advantage of the value afforded by depreciation. Lexus' hold their value better than most so used prices tend to be higher than comparable vehicles. There is a reason for it. They have a good reputation for reliability and repair costs are likely to be less than it's German rivals. That's a good thing to keep in mind. While car prices drop for this type of car, repair prices don't ever go down.

So I applaud Lexus for their first effort. Some of the things on this car are very good but it is unbalanced. So far, only the German's have found that elusive balance between ride, handling, comfort, and performance. I'm looking forward to newer versions of this car as they get it refined and worked out. In the mean time, the regular IS series has a lot of the benefits, no bone crushing ride, and lower prices.

irish44j
irish44j PowerDork
2/17/14 9:21 p.m.

I'm constantly surprised to see so few of these around here in Northern Virginia, where e46 and e92 m3's, AMG Benzes, S4/S5/S6s, and other high-end luxury "sports" sedans are ubiquitous (I see several of each every day on my commute...a new M5 hardly turns my head anymore). But I may see an IS-F once a month at most, and I've only ever met one person (in person) who has actually owned one....strange considering how many car-type people I know, who have owned things ranging from GT-Rs to Ferraris to 500hp Evos to whatever....

So that's always made me think that there must be some fatal flaw to the IS-F, or some other reason that just makes it not as appealing as the other cars that are in its category. Because there are a million Lexus(es) around here, so it's not a brand thing. And there are a ton of high-end sedans around here, so it's not a money or demographic thing. So it must just be that the car just isn't that good overall compared to its competition. Or so I've always assumed. And your review of it seems to support that, while it has Lexus quality, a badass engine, and good details, that the sum of the parts comes out to be something overall not that impressive?

Slippery
Slippery GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
2/17/14 9:24 p.m.

The 2010 was greatly improved with regards to suspension. It would be nice if you could find one of those and compare the two.

maj75
maj75 New Reader
2/17/14 9:35 p.m.

I daily drove my 2010 almost 100 miles a day. The ride was about the same as my '04 330i ZHP. Equivalent to an M3. I averaged 22 mpg, but I drive responsibly ;) I wished for a manual, but Lexus is deaf to my wishes. I have a friend who tracked his, but to me the car is heavy. The weight takes a huge toll on consumables, like tires and brake pads. He even broke a couple of wheel studs while on track.

calteg
calteg Reader
2/17/14 9:53 p.m.

A timely review. The wife has been wishing for an IS-F to replace her IS350 for several years. I'm on the verge of giving in, but I don't think she quite understands when I say that the suspension is punishing.

maj75
maj75 New Reader
2/18/14 7:55 a.m.
calteg wrote: A timely review. The wife has been wishing for an IS-F to replace her IS350 for several years. I'm on the verge of giving in, but I don't think she quite understands when I say that the suspension is punishing.

Drive it yourself. My wife didn't think it was excessive, she loved the car.

hobiercr
hobiercr GRM+ Memberand Dork
2/18/14 8:47 a.m.

My wife and I bought an '08 with 28K on it last May to be her DD. She was previously in an '03 Beetle Turbo S and commutes 30+ miles each way on crappy Tampa roads with crappy FL drivers 3 days a week. When her Beetle was unexpectedly totaled (thread here) she was really pitching for a 335i or is. She had to have a coupe and it couldn't be black or have a black interior. She had never driven one so we hit a few dealers and drove a few used ones as well as a 335d 4 door (very nice) and an '08 650i which was gorgeous but had a white interior (not with my wife we don't). The IS-F had been on my radar for some time and I had shown her pictures and she said she liked the looks so when the Tampa Lexus dealer had two '08's on the lot with low miles I said let's go drive it. She was almost sold immediately but we went back and drove it a second time and she took it for an overnight to do her commute in it to see how it did. She loved the comfort and power on the road and the seats and interior are very nice. We got a few K off but as a certified pre-owned it came with a 3 year 100K warranty which worked for me as she drives so much. Oh yeah, it's a sedan, black with black interior. It is one of the first 50 built (Neiman Marcus) and has white accents instead of the standard blue. She is happy and I love that she lets me drive it occasionally.

singleslammer
singleslammer Dork
2/18/14 9:05 a.m.

I always thought the reviews on this car were being a little aggressive on their take of the suspension. If you compare it to the German's it is probably stiff, but compared to smaller, light weight cars or any real sports car (not GT) other than an M series, S, AMG (Not black series) I would imagine that it is at least as good but probably better. Being the harshish in a group that has been chastised for softening its edge is OK by me.

I urn for one, FYI. I have since day 1.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
2/18/14 9:15 a.m.

Is it possible the harshness in the ride is due to super stiff sidewall run flats?

As in... is the car a wheel/tire/damper swap from greatness? Then I'd be shopping for one at mileage where it was time for dampers anyway, say 60-80k mi.

Tyler H
Tyler H GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
2/18/14 9:32 a.m.

Punishing is highly subjective based on the roads where you live. Detroit? Jersey turnpike? Alabama? (Tiled cement on all roads to Barber.....thunkthunk...thunkthunk...thunkthunk for hours.) Yep, punishing.

If you're lucky enough to have nice roads, you can get away with a lot more.

I think it's a car that struggles to find it's niche among Lexus owners where the median age of IS-X buyers is ~50. This car is a departure from that, which is what Lexus wants. But no car enthusiast ever had to explain the merits of a M3, and lack of a manual or dual-clutch transmission....justified or not, it loses some cred.

Personally, I love the concept. But for the same jack (or more with the used Lexus tax,) you coulda had a (?)

aussiesmg
aussiesmg MegaDork
2/18/14 10:38 a.m.

No manual, no sale... dammit

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic UberDork
2/18/14 10:49 a.m.

I wouldn't buy a new Toyota without 3 pedals, not because auto, but because electronic throttle and what recently came out about how poorly programmed it really is. In a car with a pushbutton ignition, your only real failsafe is the clutch pedal.

hobiercr
hobiercr GRM+ Memberand Dork
2/18/14 11:06 a.m.

In reply to aussiesmg:

In a high traffic, stop-and-go area like this a clutch gets old, quickly. Plus, if you haven't tried the F's 8 spd auto, you should. It downshifts during braking and unless you are really hammering it all the time you won't care. Now, if I planned to track it then that is another story. This car is a great DD and allows you to leave unpleasant situations (i.e. shiny happy person drivers) with speed and efficiency.

singleslammer
singleslammer Dork
2/18/14 11:33 a.m.

This one qualifies GPS, however, with this miles they are going to get a FIRM offer of 24K... if I were in the market

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=65202&endYear=2015&modelCode1=ISF&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&startYear=1981&makeCode1=LEXUS&searchRadius=0&mmt=%5BLEXUS%5BISF%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=365697855&listingIndex=2&Log=0

racerdave600
racerdave600 Dork
2/18/14 12:21 p.m.

My only experience is that I sometimes followed one on my morning commute. I will say it had a STRONG engine. It would pull my G35 from a stop with relative ease, and it was pretty quick itself. If I were looking for another luxury car, it would be near the top of my list.

maj75
maj75 New Reader
2/18/14 2:19 p.m.

In reply to Kenny_McCormic:

Oh, FFS, not this again...

There is that nifty lever under your right hand called a gear selector.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
2/18/14 2:28 p.m.

I like the intake manifold on these.

carbon
carbon HalfDork
2/18/14 6:09 p.m.

I will have one of these.

I think if most of the people on here bought an isf, and it was any softer, they'd put stiffer suspension in it or think about it but not spend the money to. I bet the springs and dampers soften up a little over time and just get better and better instead of feeling clapped out at 100k miles (at which time I might be able to afford one).

aussiesmg
aussiesmg MegaDork
2/18/14 6:14 p.m.
hobiercr wrote: In reply to aussiesmg: In a high traffic, stop-and-go area like this a clutch gets old, quickly. Plus, if you haven't tried the F's 8 spd auto, you should. It downshifts during braking and unless you are really hammering it all the time you won't care. Now, if I planned to track it then that is another story. This car is a great DD and allows you to leave unpleasant situations (i.e. shiny happy person drivers) with speed and efficiency.

I put 60K a year on the Elantra, then add in a Mustang, S10, ClifFord, Mongo, and a dozen other projects.

All of these are stick.

I won't accept an auto, my wife loves autos though.

Argo1
Argo1 GRM+ Memberand Dork
2/18/14 9:45 p.m.

The Lexus auto box is one of the few that I find acceptable. Not quite PDK, but good. The 35 series run flat tires do contribute significantly to the harsh ride. The Lexus has many nice features. Trouble is, you don't even have to have this kind of discussion about the M3.

carbon
carbon HalfDork
2/18/14 10:38 p.m.
Argo1 wrote: The Lexus auto box is one of the few that I find acceptable. Not quite PDK, but good. The 35 series run flat tires do contribute significantly to the harsh ride. The Lexus has many nice features. Trouble is, you don't even have to have this kind of discussion about the M3.

Lol, or you can use the money you didnt spend on repairs on some ohlins coilovers for your lexus.

Mitchell
Mitchell UltraDork
2/19/14 12:17 a.m.

Lexus seems to have the luxury part down, but they still don't have much visual presence. They are pleasing to the eye, but not exactly striking. They are subtle almost to a fault. BMW's ///M cars are muscular, but still refined. Like Bond in a tuxedo; revered by guys and gals alike.

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic UberDork
2/19/14 12:25 a.m.

In reply to maj75:

Will it mechanically neutral out the car? Like with a cable mechanically actuating some hydraulic spool valve? Do you know what 94% stack usage means?

calteg
calteg Reader
2/19/14 4:59 a.m.
Mitchell wrote: Lexus seems to have the luxury part down, but they still don't have much visual presence. They are pleasing to the eye, but not exactly striking. They are subtle almost to a fault. BMW's ///M cars are muscular, but still refined. Like Bond in a tuxedo; revered by guys and gals alike.

It's a matter of taste, so I can't tell you you're wrong, but I'll respectfully disagree. I'd argue that the E39 M5 was the last ///M car that was "muscular, yet refined." After that came the swoops and vents and bulges that ruined the aesthetic just a little bit.

singleslammer
singleslammer Dork
2/19/14 6:38 a.m.

In reply to calteg:

Totally agree. BMW lost their muscle look with the E39. It SEEMS like they may be trying to get back to that a little with the newer cars but the mid to late 2000s were very feminine/"swoopy" IMO. Not a bad thing (except Bangle butt) but not nearly as hard edged as the ISF.

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