You know you need more power when. . . . .

dean1484 wrote: You have to decide if you need to turn off the AC or not when merging in to traffic.

Story of my life when trying to merge into traffic on a steep uphill in my Versa.

I didn't realize how spoiled I was with power until I got my E34 touring with 192 hp to lug almost 4000 lbs around. Previously, every car I got was at least a small bump up in power/acceleration, and that one went backwards a bit. Definitely took a different driving style, and didn't tolerate loafing around town below 2000 rpm very well at all.

Keith Tanner wrote: Corners are the fun part of driving. Power makes the boring parts between corners go away faster.

Yes, to me, corners are a huge part of the fun of driving, totally agree. That's why I put the asterisk in my comments. When I'm running LeMons, I have a hoot keeping up with cars that have a lot more power than me...though it does suck that they just walk me down the straights.

But it's an entirely different thing for street driving, IMO. My commute is almost all highway anyway...very, very few corners. Power is much more important.

Klayfish wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: Corners are the fun part of driving. Power makes the boring parts between corners go away faster.

Yes, to me, corners are a huge part of the fun of driving, totally agree. That's why I put the asterisk in my comments. When I'm running LeMons, I have a hoot keeping up with cars that have a lot more power than me...though it does suck that they just walk me down the straights. But it's an entirely different thing for street driving, IMO. My commute is almost all highway anyway...very, very few corners. Power is much more important.

I live in Phoenix and there are almost no corners or twists due to the very straight grid that most of our streets follow. Whether I'm driving in the city or on the highway, turns are almost non-existent. I used to have a 17-mile commute to work with a total of 6 turns from my house to the office. Now the commute is shorter at only 7 miles, with about 8 turns total. That's why I value straight line speed more than anything, because handling doesn't matter here.

Keith Tanner wrote: I believe it says in the M5 owner's manual that you must reach 100+ mph on every onramp. You know you're doing it properly when you have to brake hard to merge.

Ah yes, I remember those times fondly. 100mph was nothing for that car, and it would easily reach it on a moderately sized on-ramp without even flooring it. I (allegedly) got it to 165mph one time before chickening out (it was de-limited so it had enough juice to keep going past that).

With my 540it I have to work a little harder to get to felony speeds...

dannyzabolotny wrote:

Klayfish wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: Corners are the fun part of driving. Power makes the boring parts between corners go away faster.

Yes, to me, corners are a huge part of the fun of driving, totally agree. That's why I put the asterisk in my comments. When I'm running LeMons, I have a hoot keeping up with cars that have a lot more power than me...though it does suck that they just walk me down the straights. But it's an entirely different thing for street driving, IMO. My commute is almost all highway anyway...very, very few corners. Power is much more important.

I live in Phoenix and there are almost no corners or twists due to the very straight grid that most of our streets follow. Whether I'm driving in the city or on the highway, turns are almost non-existent. I used to have a 17-mile commute to work with a total of 6 turns from my house to the office. Now the commute is shorter at only 7 miles, with about 8 turns total. That's why I value straight line speed more than anything, because handling doesn't matter here.

Then you need the power so you can reach escape velocity from Phoenix

I remember back when I was in high school all those bitchin IROC Camaros had way too much power when they couldn't turn right from a stop without kickin her sidways!

I don't know why they never do that anymore. Must be tire technology?

Tyler H wrote: I don't know why they never do that anymore. Must be tire technology?

Haven't you been watching the "Mustangs leaving C&C" videos? :)

. . . . . your DD had 115 Hp when it was delivered in 2003.

I think all cars since like 1982 automatically cut the AC off when you go flat out. As well as raise the idle speed when the AC comes on and stuff like that.

Now, rig your car to shut off the alternator when you go flat out, and you know you need more power.

With the SC'd NB Miata I've recently discovered the joy of being able to make a pass on the highway, in 5th gear, with the A/C on. You just put your foot down and go. This is such an amazing concept. It also makes back roads less of a challenge - you can get to very unsafe and illegal speeds between corners no matter how badly you drive said corner. Boring.

My 2.0 Mazda3 and STS-prepped '90 Miata are perfectly adequate for all driving and merging situations, IMO. Enough grunt to dart into a gap with a downshift, and enough power to accelerate away from a stoplight or climb a hill. This also applies to pretty much anything average, 120-150 hp and 2500-3000 pounds. 'Normal car' for the 1995-2005 era.

A stock, tired, 1.6 Miata is about as slow as I can enjoy driving.

Then there's our 2011 Fiesta. It's technically in the category mentioned above at 120 hp and 2600 lbs but WOW. That car requires planning. It'll always 'go' but you have to shift frequently. I think it makes it interesting but it does get old on long highway drives needing to shift to 4th to climb hills (or attack them at 80 mph so you're in the powerband in 5th) and having to wind it out through every gear to merge reasonably. I wouldn't want to drive anything slower than that.

Robbie wrote: raise the idle speed when the AC comes on and stuff like that.

That one isn't used on a lot of cars. It's typically only done on small engines with low cylinder counts that otherwise get too rough / shaky with the increased load at idle. The older Hyundai Elantra I had for a while would raise the idle from 800 to 900 with the A/C on. The Jeep doesn't raise the idle at all, stays right at 700. Interestingly, the e-fan turning on causes more of an idle dip than the A/C compressor engaging.

rslifkin wrote:

Robbie wrote: raise the idle speed when the AC comes on and stuff like that.

That one isn't used on a lot of cars. It's typically only done on small engines with low cylinder counts that otherwise get too rough / shaky with the increased load at idle. The older Hyundai Elantra I had for a while would raise the idle from 800 to 900 with the A/C on. The Jeep doesn't raise the idle at all, stays right at 700. Interestingly, the e-fan turning on causes more of an idle dip than the A/C compressor engaging.

Weird, my BMW 540i raises the idle speed from about 500 to 700 when I turn the AC on at idle, and it's got a 4.4L V8.

In reply to dannyzabolotny:

Probably a product of the low idle speed. I'm guessing they had some reason for setting the idle low (noise maybe?) so they have to bump it up when there's more load on the engine.

IIRC LS3 idle speed is 550 rpm.

Furious_E wrote: In reply to dean1484: When there is no decision, you KNOW you need to turn off the AC to merge into traffic

My 1997 corolla with an auto trans is what got me thinking. I drove my daughters 2010 Mazda 3 that is a manual trans yesterday and it was so much more responsive.

when regardless of how hard you try you can't hold your speed on the hill. 81 civic + mountains= sloooooowwwww

I've never really had on-ramp problems but i also think that most of the onramps and highways in Texas don't suck. They kinda can't if we're going to be the biggest damn state on the mainland and still want overland commerce to exist.

Anyway, my ~70hp Insight and CRX HF were both pretty ok in acceleration. Insight had 112mph top speed. Crx was paltry at like 90. Recently hit 100mph in my 1987 Montero on 32" mud terrains which probably sapped a bunch of accelerative power, but i still think it's fine. I don't even think of my old Prius as having poor acceleration, but like the CRX it's very disappointing in top speed. At ~105 it's barely enough to cruise on by all the 300-400hp pickup truck owners with stock speed limiters. I'm often driving the slowest car on the road at the fastest speed on the road wherever i go. I guess if some of yall live in places where you cant just start accelerating farther back, uhh.. move to Texas! Everything's bigger in Texas. Like onramps! I can't even remember what my slowest car was. I know for a fact i've logged a 20.0 second 1/4 on an accelerometer. But i've NEVER had a big problem getting on a highway safely. Maybe fire your road planners?

chandlerGTi wrote: I daily drove diesel rabbits for years, even AC equipped didn't mean anything if you had to accelerate.

Rabbit diesel and smog era spitfire had so little power that I could pull out to pass a semi and could not bust through the slipstream.

You can keep it pinned through a slalom and not lose traction

In reply to Vigo:

Dude, my crx hf was my fav car of all time for on and off ramps!

Trackmouse wrote: When you try to do a burnout and the only smoke you get is from the clutch When your friends talk about your sports car and you change the subject to mpg. When you come to a screeching halt, mid power slide, because the tires caught traction. Even though you were in first gear and WOT.

This was killing me

Easy solution: move somewhere with bad enough traffic that power doesn't matter since we're all doing 10-25mph in stop and go anyway.

Bonus points for making it Northern Virginia where you get all the traffic plus some of the (or the?) most draconian speed laws in the nation. I always get a chuckle out of seeing some newer BMW M/AMG/Porsche Turbo car creeping along all jerky like.

bmw88rider wrote: when regardless of how hard you try you can't hold your speed on the hill. 81 civic + mountains= sloooooowwwww

I've seen this problem... 3 of us coming back from PA to upstate NY in a Jeep convoy. The 2 friends were both in YJ Wranglers on 33s. 1 with a 6cyl, 1 with a 4cyl. At one point, we're coming up I-81 climbing one of the long hills. Doing 70 or a little better. 4cyl guy had been at the back of the group for a bit at this point. Part way up the hill, we get a call on the CB: "can you guys slow down? I'm in 3rd gear at almost redline and wide open and I can't do better than 68." Oops, I guess we should have put the slow guy at the front...

Keith Tanner wrote:

dannyzabolotny wrote: Man, you guys make me feel bad for wishing my 300hp daily driver wagon had more power... The problem with power is that you get used to it pretty quickly and always want more. When I first jumped from a 150hp Hyundai to a 300hp BMW, it was amazing, but then I owned a BMW M5 for a little while and that 400hp + 8 throttle bodies ruined me.

I believe it says in the M5 owner's manual that you must reach 100+ mph on every onramp. You know you're doing it properly when you have to brake hard to merge.

I got a ticket, coming off a ramp. I didn't realize I was doing 100, in my Magnum RT.