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Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/9/22 12:01 a.m.

In reply to adam525i :

Awesome, thanks!

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/23/22 9:10 p.m.

So I've been doing a bunch of investigation in planning an entire drivetrain upgrade. I've found a few 135mm wheel sets that will fit a 12-speed cassette, and started down the path towards piecing together the other components that will work together. 
 

The last night before the Friday fun-ride, the shop owner wanted me to rid his Diamonback Release 3 that he's been riding. I wasn't interested, since I don't like the slack geometry or heavier weight of current bikes. But he handed it to me, so I hopped on despite his clipless pedals on it, and did a trackstand, effortlessly, for about a full minute. "Huh, well ok, maybe I'll try it out..." 

I've never hopped on a bike & had it instantly feel 100% natural. By the time we got back to the shop I hopped it up the front steps to their front door, which is something I can't do on my current bike.  Yeah, so I'm picking it up next week!

I have crap service from the campground, but I'll post pics & vids later.

 

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/24/22 9:23 a.m.

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/24/22 9:24 a.m.
fatallightning
fatallightning Reader
7/25/22 10:47 a.m.

In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :

There's a little bit of a learning curve to riding slacker bikes. If you're used to riding the way back on the saddle because you would get thrown over the bars on an old school bike, a slack bike will feel awful. You really have to start to trust the front end and load up the front to make them work. As far as weight goes, once they're on the trail, most people have a hard time feeling the difference between a 26 lbs bike and a 34 lbs one. Suspension design and setup make a much a bigger difference IME. The DB has a very similar design to the last gen Santa Cruz VPP stuff, which were known for being efficient pedaling bikes.

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/25/22 1:07 p.m.

In reply to fatallightning :

Climbing is & always has been my biggest struggle. I just don't have the lungs for it, and even in my prime never had great aerobic capacity. So of course I wanted a lighter bike to help make those climbs easier. Going from a 3x9 to a 1x12 I knew I'd be gaining more range while loosing available ratios, but it just climbs so much easier. 

I'm figuring out that it's due to not just the gearing, but the rear suspension that doesn't need to be locked out for climbs, plus the dropper post. I'm most comfortable with a seat height that's about 1" lower than what should be my max height, but on the Juliana that made seated climbs too much for my knees, yet the rear suspension just had too much sag when pedaling while standing. 

Now I can just bump the seat up that final 1" before the climb, and even if I do have to get out of the saddle, I'm not noticeably losing any power through the suspension.

So it turns out total weight doesn't impact climbing nearly as much as I expected, and the slacker head tube angle doesn't hurt responsiveness like I expected either. 

adam525i
adam525i GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/25/22 10:36 p.m.

You should still buy a shock pump :)

Congrats on the new ride!

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/26/22 10:07 a.m.

In reply to adam525i :

The DB came with one! 

Though I'm heading to the shop later to get another pair of Ergon GA3 grips & a small bash guard for it. I also seem to have lost my lights over the weekend. So I'll pick up another set & likely find my old set as soon as I get home. 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
7/26/22 4:12 p.m.

In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :

I'm looking for my lights and stuff post move too.  I need to commit some dedicated storage space to bike gear.  

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/28/22 10:28 p.m.

I've put about 24-miles on the Diamondback so far & think I'm close to getting the suspension dialed in. Unfortunately when the shop went through the bike Saturday they also aired up the suspension, as well as taking off the used Maxxis Ikon tires the owner had been riding & replacing them with the Maxxix DHF/DHR it came with. The result was the front end feeling WAY heavier than it did when I tested out last Friday. However it wasn't something I noticed on the trails Sunday. 

I followed the Fox setup manuals & am currently at 77psi front/150psi rear, which the shop owner confirmed was in the ballpark of where he'd set it. 

Now I need to think about tires. From the Maxxis site, the DHF currently on it may weigh up to a pound more than the Ikon he had on it, depending on compound. But is the Ikon durable enough for urban & trail use? Will it wear out noticeably quicker than the DWF?

Oh and I installed a small bash guard today. Haven't had a need to test it out yet though. 

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/29/22 11:58 a.m.

The new grips arrived. I really wanted another set of Ergon GA3's, but they don't have any colors I though would look good - at least not without changing a couple other components to match. So I picked thes up from Amazon for $15. I've never heard of them & have no clue how they'll wear or if they'll be comfortable, but at least the color is a pretty close match :)

Brotus7
Brotus7 Dork
7/31/22 6:49 a.m.

Re: tires 

The weight savings of the Ikon is probably dominated by it having a smaller knobs.  I was running Maxxis Rekons on my trail bike for a while, which are kind of in the middle between an Ikon and a Minion.  They didn't wear unreasonably fast compared to my DHF/DHR experience.  It's worth noting that we have a ton of sharp rocks where I ride, so the sidewalls typically age out before the tread is gone.

I had a similar concern when I upgraded from my XC 26er to a 29er a couple years ago (had a bastardized Devinci Dexter 150F/110R to an Intense Primer 29 150F/140R).  The new bike wasn't as snappy as my old one, so I pulled off the OE minions and stuck on some Rekons to shed some rotating weight. 2 years on, I'm back to running a DHR 2.6 in the front and a DHR 2.4 out back. I don't think it's affected my average speed much just a little change in how I ride it. Momentum is a little more important, but the grip is GD fantastic.

I liked the Rekons quite a bit except for the small and unsupportive side knobs. If you really lean the bike over in a turn, they  give way and don't really bite hard or with confidence. The Minions by contrast will slide a little like you're going to lowside, then they bite hard.

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/31/22 9:38 p.m.

In reply to Brotus7 :

That's awesome feedback - thanks!

I will say after riding more technical trails today this bike is awesome on them as-is. But I'm primarily an urban/wannabe trials rider, so I have to find something that's a reasonable trade-off between those two differing scenarios. That said, the DHF at 1243g is just stupid-heavy. There's a minion SS that's in the 795-810g range, so I may look into replacing the DHF with it & keep the DFR on the rear.

fatallightning
fatallightning Reader
8/1/22 2:15 p.m.

In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :

The Minion SS is really designed to be a rear tire, despite them talking about being modeled after the DHF. Although people here (northeast) do sometimes run DHF front and rear, and but rarely DHR front and rear. I find the Ikon too minimalist for my liking, I've run the Ardents to pretty good effect. If you're really looking to save weight, traditionally Schwalbe has been the lightest of the trail tires. I usually shred the sidewalls off them personally though.

Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/1/22 7:55 p.m.

Tires are definitely a big deal with how a bike can feel.   On my enduro/gravity bike I run some of the heaviest tires around - 2.5 Maxxis Assegai with DH casings.  They weigh a ton, but can handle smashing rocks at speed riding at bike parks.  However, they make the bike brutal to do trail rides on.  I tried running lighter DHF Trail casing and a DHR II (Double Down casing) on the much lighter wheels from my trail bike and those knocked 2 lbs off the total bike weight (34 down to 32), but it was still a bit of a beast to ride.   This is compared to my trail bike which runs Schwalbe Knobby Nic on the front and a Racing Ralph on the rear - both fairly light XC tires.  

Not the enduro bike, but the bike definitely punches above its weight class on descents. Love this bike... 

I do some pretty technical rides running these tires, but I've learned to hold back just a bit on descents which seems to keep them alive for a reasonable time.  I have pinch-flatted both tires when being stupid. Gotta be pretty stupid to pinch flat tubeless tires on carbon rims... which in some ways is good as it forces me to ride smoother lines vs. my typical "retired DH racer" style of point and shoot. 

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/1/22 10:02 p.m.

What do you guys think of the Maxxis Ardent SS? It looks more like a trail tire & has better grip than their XC tires, but at 871g is quite a bit lighter than the DHF I have currently(1243g).

fatallightning
fatallightning Reader
8/2/22 10:39 a.m.

Ardent or Ardent race? I don't think I've heard of an Arden SS.

In reply to fatallightning :

Yeah, sorry the Ardent Race. I was mixing it up with the Minion SS. 

I found this vid today discussing various combinations of Maxxis tires for XC through trail use. 
 


 

So now I'm considering a DHR II up front & Rekon on the rear, or possibly an Ardent on the front & Ardent race in back. Any thoughts on either of those combos?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ UltimaDork
8/3/22 5:53 p.m.

I believe I have an Ardent and Ardent Race combo on my bike but would have to double check.  They're light on my tubeless setup and have reasonable grip, and they've outlived at least one set of pivots now.  My only real complaint would be lousy grip in mud.

fatallightning
fatallightning Reader
8/4/22 10:55 a.m.

The DHR/Rekon combo will definitely be a little heavier with more rolling resistance. They'll also be grippier in more technical terrain. The Ardent setup with be lighter and faster rolling, and still do decent on trails if your trails tend to be dryer and more hard packed. They don't do well in mud. Anything works ok in loam.

Brotus7
Brotus7 Dork
8/4/22 2:26 p.m.

I ran DHR in a 29x2.6 front with a Rekon 29x2.3 in the rear for a little bit before I mounted a Dissector out back. Also ran Rekons front and rear. The biggest complaint I had is that the tires grip and feel differently when pushed hard. The side knobs on the Rekon are a bit softer than the DHR.  I think I have a Rekon mounted on a spare tire, I'll snap a picture showing the side knob comparison.

If you aren't pushing turns hard, it's perfectly fine. Hell, it was great for 99%, just a couple trails with high speed flat turns left me looking for a little better side bite.

Thanks guys!

The trails here are sandy, but with a hard pack sand/dirt texture in most places. 
 

The other thing is realistically I'll be putting at least as many miles on pavement as I will on trails, so wear/longevity is a bit of a concern - I'd sacrifice a bit of ultimate grip if it keeps me from going through multiple sets of tires per year. 
 

I stopped by the shop today to see what they had in stock and the Specialized Butcher Grid Trail in a T7 compound seems like it could work. Any experience with those?

Brotus7
Brotus7 Dork
8/5/22 2:51 p.m.

No first hand experience, but the Butcher looks pretty blocky, so I'd expect the lateral grip to be on par with the Minions. Unless they're quite a bit lighter than what you have, I wear out your current tires first and then replace with the Butchers or something else.

As promised, Rekon vs DHR, both in 29x2.4 WT, at 22 psi on 30mm rims.  Rekon on the left, DHR on the right.  I'd probably consider swapping to the Rekon if I'm planning on doing a series of longer rides.

Edit: I had a little extra time while cleaning up the garage, so I may as well weigh my spare/used tires as I put them away.. 

Rekon 29x2.6 = 840g (right)

Minion DHF 29x2.6 = 1060g (center)

High Roller 29x2.5 = 970g (left)

It's all a far cry from the 400g XC tires I ran a decade ago.

EricM
EricM SuperDork
8/5/22 9:55 p.m.

Dude! I am riding again too!  Check out my new bike in the bike picture thread. I won't post it here as not to clutter your thread.

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