1 2 3 4
frenchyd
frenchyd SuperDork
6/24/18 1:41 p.m.

I read that the proposed import duty will affect all cars and parts.  

Since nearly 50% of even American made cars  is imported. I wonder what that’s going to do to our hobby?  

Grtechguy
Grtechguy MegaDork
6/24/18 2:04 p.m.

What counts as an imported vehicle now days?   Toyota USA has several large US factories,  as does Honda, KIA and others.

markwemple
markwemple UberDork
6/24/18 2:05 p.m.

Cost us an arm and a leg, especially when you add the tariffs to some of the materials involved in manufacturing. This has already gotten out of hand.

TJL
TJL New Reader
6/24/18 2:42 p.m.

There is still plenty of people who think “made in America” means the United States of America. It means North America. Few chevys that were in the family were made in Mexico and Canada. Meanwhile my “jap” Nissans were made in the UNITED STATES. 

 

Dont get me wrong, id much prefer my Japanese autos build in Japan. Just saying. Usually it was some “‘Merica” chevy driver who was knocking on my “foreign” vehicles. 

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr UltraDork
6/24/18 3:39 p.m.

Yep.  However, the tariffs are gonna be imposed on Mexico and Canada too.  Therefore even American cars are now imported.

 

Time to Buy a Subaru, Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, or bmw....  those are at least assembled in the USA.  (Some of them anyway).  The parts still come from overseas.

 

I imagine the parts will get tariff' d which would probably be expensive than an entire car imported.  

 

Curious to see where this ends up...

Suprf1y
Suprf1y PowerDork
6/24/18 4:05 p.m.
wvumtnbkr said:

 

Curious to see where this ends up...

I can't see how it's going to do what it's intended purpose is and think it's going to hurt you significantly more than it's going to benefit you.

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
6/24/18 4:11 p.m.

AALA 

LISTINGS OF PASSENGER MOTOR VEHICLES THAT ARE LABELED WITH THEIR U.S./CANADIAN PARTS CONTENT

NHTSA has provided these reports as an aid to consumers considering the purchase of a new vehicle. The charts list information that NHTSA received from vehicle manufacturers about the U.S./Canadian content (by value) of the equipment (parts) used to assemble passenger motor vehicles. The American Automobile Labeling Act (AALA) defines a passenger motor vehicle as a motor vehicle designed to carry not more than 12 persons with a gross vehicle weight rating not greater than 8,500 pounds and includes multipurpose passenger vehicles and light duty trucks. It does not include a motorcycle or a truck not designed primarily to carry its operator or passengers, i.e., a delivery truck. A label with the U.S./Canada content percentage and related additional information must be displayed on these vehicles up to the time of first retail sale.

 

The most domestic (US and/or Canada) For 2018 is...

Honda Odesey and Honda Ridgeline at 75%

No other car sold in America has a higher percentage. 

Wally
Wally MegaDork
6/24/18 4:14 p.m.

It seems to be another example of people running something without knowing how it works. So much of most vehicle manufacturing is spread here, there, and everywhere that I can’t see this working how they think it would.  

KyAllroad (Jeremy)
KyAllroad (Jeremy) PowerDork
6/24/18 4:42 p.m.
Wally said:

It seems to be another example of people running something without knowing how it works. So much of most vehicle manufacturing is spread here, there, and everywhere that I can’t see this working how they think it would.  

QF emeffing T!!!!

There is a massive lack of understanding at the policy level and it’s gonna bite us all in the collective arse.

Slippery
Slippery GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
6/24/18 4:45 p.m.
KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:
Wally said:

It seems to be another example of people running something without knowing how it works. So much of most vehicle manufacturing is spread here, there, and everywhere that I can’t see this working how they think it would.  

QF emeffing T!!!!

There is a massive lack of understanding at the policy level and it’s gonna bite us all in the collective arse.

First and probably last time I post in a thread like this. 

Do you really think they don't know? I think you are being naive. I think they do know, but they also know most of their supporters don't and it makes them look good. Maybe I am naive, who knows ...

Boost_Crazy
Boost_Crazy HalfDork
6/24/18 4:46 p.m.

I think It's way to early to tell what the ultimate results of these tariffs, both actual and proposed, will result in. 

The proponents of the tariffs argue that there is a severe trade imbalance that is getting worse. They believe that there needs to be some push back to move the needle back the other direction. I don't thing that the tariffs themselves are the goal, but a tool to negotiate more favorable trade agreements on our end. And like any negotiation, both sides demand more than they expect and find a happy medium. They also believe that long term, trade imbalances can do lasting harm as sectors of the economy are exported large scale and fade away. For instance, if most manufacturing is moved overseas, and you suddenly need it back (think WWII) you would be at a distinct disadvantage. 

Those that oppose the tariffs argue that they are an obstacle to free trade, drive up costs, and can hurt sectors of the economy- our exports. The tariffs can also be disruptive to the economy because it introduces uncertainty. 

Both of the above are true. The question is, where are we at on the scale, and what are we willing to do about it? Do we need to do anything about it? It could be argued that we are already on the short end of a trade war, we just haven't fired any shots back. Because doing so would most certainly impact our economy negatively at least on the short term. And since since short term is much more visible than long term, it is not politically expedient to take action. So the trade imbalance has continued slow and steady growth. 

Doing nothing is safe, but might be the wrong thing to do. Doing something is dangerous, and might also be the wrong thing. My prediction- it's not going to be anywhere as bad as it could be, but we also won't move the needle very far. The question is, will the long term gains be worth the short term pain? 

Boost_Crazy
Boost_Crazy HalfDork
6/24/18 5:17 p.m.

In reply to Wally :

It seems to be another example of people running something without knowing how it works. So much of most vehicle manufacturing is spread here, there, and everywhere that I can’t see this working how they think it would.  

I think they most certainly do know. One of the main reasons that automotive production is spread around is because of past and present trade policies. The manufactures moved things around to accommodate the policy, that has been going on for decades. The current argument is that those policies still favor our trade partners. Wether the auto industry itself is a target for policy change or if it is a tool to drive overall agreements remains to be seen. 

itsarebuild
itsarebuild Dork
6/24/18 5:23 p.m.

The thing that favors other countries in our trade have little to do with laws and almost everything to do with our spending habits. Perhaps we can spend less time worrying about the joneses?

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia New Reader
6/24/18 5:26 p.m.

and some parts of tariffs stay around a LONG time , 

the "chicken" tax of 25% is still on imported trucks for the last 50 years........

fasted58
fasted58 MegaDork
6/24/18 5:27 p.m.

Threatening tariffs are more than likely an attempt by 45's administration to put pressure on Canada and Mexico in renegotiating NAFTA. 

But we'll see how that all works out.

Don't sweat it till it happens.

markwemple
markwemple UberDork
6/24/18 7:41 p.m.

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

Outside of the nuts in DC, I haven't heard 1 economist say it was a good idea. Tons saying it isn't. Most are saying that the China deal may have been worth a thought 20 years ago, but we are way past that.

markwemple
markwemple UberDork
6/24/18 7:44 p.m.

In reply to fasted58 :

They can hurt us as bad, if not worse, than we can hurt them. We are so hated now, even if we backed off the tariff issue, it may be too late. We are burning bridges so fast now.

frenchyd
frenchyd SuperDork
6/24/18 8:19 p.m.

In reply to Grtechguy :

In the 1920’s America was the China of today.  A Model T Ford sold for a few hundred dollars when most cars were thousands of dollars.America also sold phonographs and phones. Trains and planes steel and cloth. Clothing and food!!  

That’s when the trade wars started which led to the Great Depression. That took a decade and World War 2 to end. 

You’d think politicians would read a little history and realize how big a blunder they are heading into  

markwemple
markwemple UberDork
6/24/18 8:21 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Exactly. This is what happens when stupid people listen to stupid people instead of smart people. 

Boost_Crazy
Boost_Crazy HalfDork
6/24/18 8:28 p.m.

In reply to markwemple :

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

Outside of the nuts in DC, I haven't heard 1 economist say it was a good idea. Tons saying it isn't. Most are saying that the China deal may have been worth a thought 20 years ago, but we are way past that.

Do you mean the tariffs themselves or trying to equalize trade overall? I don't think many people, even those imposing them, think tariffs are good. Maybe people who stand to benefit directly (US auto workers in this case.) But there are a lot of people outside of D.C. that see the benefits of equalizing trade. Long term. If it works. And tariffs are a tool.

I also think the cause of the trade imbalance is important. Americans like cheap stuff. They don't like to work for low wages, but are happy to buy from countries that do. In that case, that's just basic economics. 

But there are other factors at play, depending on the countries in question. Some already disproportionally tax our goods. Some use state sponsored "companies" to dump product onto the market, with the goal of forcing competition out of business. Others have much stricter rules for US companies doing business in their country than we do for their business in ours. To be fair, I'm sure other countries could say the same about us, but overall we appear to be on the short side of things. That said, we are doing pretty well, and it's understandable that many feel that we shouldn't rock the boat. 

 

frenchyd
frenchyd SuperDork
6/24/18 8:42 p.m.

In reply to Boost_Crazy : This is a can’t win situation. We. impose tariffs on steel they respond with tariffs on pork and soy beans. Our farmers who are already at or below the cost of production are hurt as a result. 

Meanwhile other countries impose tariffs on Harley Davidson motorcycles and Bourbon. OPEC floods world oil markets  with more oil. 

Pretty easy to see where all of this leading to. 

Boost_Crazy
Boost_Crazy HalfDork
6/24/18 8:56 p.m.

In reply to markwemple :

1) No, that's not what happened in the 20's. And no, 1920's America was not like China. 

2) It's really hard to carry on a decent conversation when you start calling people stupid. You may disagree with other's opinions or decisions, that doesn't make them stupid. You may not agree with the goals of this administration, but that does not make the people in it stupid. To the same degree, those that disagree with previous administrations would be wrong to label them as stupid. It's not about politics, it's about respect and intellectual honesty.

This a good discussion, with most of us tip-toeing around the politics. But then you go charging in like a bull in a China shop.  Ironically, didn't you just demand that another thread be locked because you perceived it to be political?

Boost_Crazy
Boost_Crazy HalfDork
6/24/18 9:13 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

In reply to Boost_Crazy : This is a can’t win situation. We. impose tariffs on steel they respond with tariffs on pork and soy beans. Our farmers who are already at or below the cost of production are hurt as a result. 

Meanwhile other countries impose tariffs on Harley Davidson motorcycles and Bourbon. OPEC floods world oil markets  with more oil. 

Pretty easy to see where all of this leading to. 

Maybe so. It's a big poker game. We've been folding our hands, being blead down a little at a time. Can't lose too bad if you keep folding. Can't win either though. Our opponent's stacks are getting bigger , ours has been shrinking. Maybe we got a good hand, or maybe the bluff is good enough to get some of our chips back. Or maybe we lose big. But anyone telling you that they know what will happen must be a psychic because we haven't turned the cards over yet. 

Is it wise to play the game? That's a very valid question, and I don't think there is a "right" answer. If we keep folding, nothing bad will happen, at least not suddenly. It would be hard for history to point out the mistake. If  we play the hand, it will be pretty obvious if it was a good or poor choice. I can tell you that we didn't build up our stack of chips by folding. 

 

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
6/24/18 9:24 p.m.
Slippery said:
KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:
Wally said:

It seems to be another example of people running something without knowing how it works. So much of most vehicle manufacturing is spread here, there, and everywhere that I can’t see this working how they think it would.  

QF emeffing T!!!!

There is a massive lack of understanding at the policy level and it’s gonna bite us all in the collective arse.

First and probably last time I post in a thread like this. 

Do you really think they don't know? I think you are being naive. I think they do know, but they also know most of their supporters don't and it makes them look good. Maybe I am naive, who knows ...

Who knew international trade was so hard... 

markwemple
markwemple UberDork
6/24/18 9:44 p.m.

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

Are you honestly saying that the people in charge are anything but dumb? There has been nothing seen to confirm that. In this instance, they ate intentionally refusing to listen to the incredibly large group of economists who are making it clear that they are on the wrong path. This is right there with the crazy climate change deniers. The science is clear. Whether you like it or not. 

1 2 3 4
Our Preferred Partners
g8yf1cs8BqpOBgxVe0F2x1xavpIM8EN2UmzCOpT3tjTYR49OwJk5SUk7BvZoD2u2