Advice for the newly laid off?

FGC, this is a great time to start your own business....just a thought

Everyone complains there's nothing good on TV, How hard can it be to start a channel.

Thanks, everyone! Lots of stuff to think about, and I thank y'all for that.

I have to admit..politically, I'm a lil' left of center. I think there's more badness to come for regular folks in the US, and that I should liquidate the 401k now, regardless of the tax penalties, while it's still worth anything at all. The company I have my 401k with actually has most of it tied up in stocks, and I think that I'm a very lucky man to be able get it out of there before the next stock market collapse.

If this gives SWMBO & I a little place to make a stand when the Corporate American house of cards finally collapses, I'd be cool with that. Only thing that bothers me is that my kid has to live in the aftermath.

The company I have my 401k with actually has most of it tied up in stocks, and I think that I'm a very lucky man to be able get it out of there before the next stock market collapse.

I'm no financial advisor (that's a good thing,) but I wouldn't cash out. I'm not sure they all work this way, but I'd tend to assume they do: My last 401k allowed you to shift money around and choose your level of aggressiveness/risk. Worth checking into, rather than donating more of your hard-earned dough to uncle scam. Honestly, I'd rather light hundred dollar bills on fire than do that.

Another thought - You've got loads of stories from racing and working the corners - especially the Road Atlanta stories - enough for a documentary or book - make a list of the races/stories/people - what would it take to do a few interviews? Here's a way to fund it.

friedgreencorrado wrote: If this gives SWMBO & I a little place to make a stand when the Corporate American house of cards finally collapses, I'd be cool with that.

You know, if the "house of cards" really does come down, I'm not sure having MONEY is going to be any more helpful than having stocks. Either one depends on the other for value.

dculberson wrote: You know, if the "house of cards" really does come down, I'm not sure having MONEY is going to be any more helpful than having stocks. Either one depends on the other for value.

Guns. Lots of guns!

friedgreencorrado wrote: My industry (television), like many others, is downsizing and offshoring. I'm one of the latest folks affected by it.

Ug. Sorry man. I'm in television too. I know exactly what you're saying. I worry about losing my job, not because I couldn't find anotherone, but because I'm not sure I could find one making what I make now.

Hang in there. Think on it before you cash out the 401k. Everyone has covered that pretty well. It's usually not a good move.

Buy gold. It's not really going up in value, it's just the dollar losing it. And, it will ALWAYS be valuable.

If you want to stay where you are - contact your local Colleges (I work at one in Canada - we call them Community Colleges, I am not sure what you guys call them - Technical Schools?). Most of our faculty in our Media Arts area are ex-TV people.

Might land you a position?

oldtin wrote: Another thought - You've got loads of stories from racing and working the corners - especially the Road Atlanta stories - enough for a documentary or book - make a list of the races/stories/people - what would it take to do a few interviews? Here's a way to fund it.

Oldtin, you'lll laugh at this..I already know about Kickstarter. Do you recall the pic I put up on another thread here with the pretty lil' blonde standing next to my old Triumph GT-6? She & her husband are part of the "artistic community" in Memphis, TN..and they're making a documentary about the punk rock club that was there in the 1980s. When they needed some cash to finish the project, Kickstarter was where they went.

In the latest update she's sent me, the film is now "feature length".

That being said, the reason I went back to a technical position in the first place (20yrs ago when I was hired by Turner) was because I couldn't write worth a E36 M3. If I were good at writing, I'd have had an Emmy (or at least a Clio) in my trophy case by now.

Honestly, telling my tales isn't something from which I could make a new career. That stuff might work for BS Levy..but lots of us forget that he was a great reporter & columnist for enthusiast magazines long before he crafted "The Last Open Road". Even if I could (in my wildest dreams!) write as well as he does, I don't have the credentials that he had before he decided to write a novel.

HiTempguy wrote:

dculberson wrote: You know, if the "house of cards" really does come down, I'm not sure having MONEY is going to be any more helpful than having stocks. Either one depends on the other for value.

Guns. Lots of guns!

Dude, I'm a native rural Southerner. I feel that I'm less of a man sometimes, because the only two I have are a handgun (Glock 19) and a shotgun (Remington 870).

poopshovel wrote:

The company I have my 401k with actually has most of it tied up in stocks, and I think that I'm a very lucky man to be able get it out of there before the next stock market collapse.

I'm no financial advisor (that's a good thing,) but I wouldn't cash out. I'm not sure they all work this way, but I'd tend to assume they do: My last 401k allowed you to shift money around and choose your level of aggressiveness/risk. Worth checking into, rather than donating more of your hard-earned dough to uncle scam. Honestly, I'd rather light hundred dollar bills on fire than do that.

Poop, I'm actually thinking about retaining a real tax lawyer while I'm getting my severence pay (again, the company's being seriously cool about it-sending it every two weeks like a paycheck, intead of a lump sum that would be taxed at a higher rate) and asking about 401k stuff. My research only leads me to the crap about using 401k funds for a "down payment" on a house, I can't find anything about any tax relief for using the damn thing to just buy a berkeleying house outright.

friedgreencorrado wrote: Dude, I'm a native rural Southerner. I feel that I'm less of a man sometimes, because the only two I have are a handgun (Glock 19) and a shotgun (Remington 870).

I'm an Alberta redneck and we only have 3 or 4 22's in the basement. I feel your pain.

With gas spiking to $2.50/l this summer though, I think we might be stocking up...

friedgreencorrado wrote:

poopshovel wrote:

The company I have my 401k with actually has most of it tied up in stocks, and I think that I'm a very lucky man to be able get it out of there before the next stock market collapse.

I'm no financial advisor (that's a good thing,) but I wouldn't cash out. I'm not sure they all work this way, but I'd tend to assume they do: My last 401k allowed you to shift money around and choose your level of aggressiveness/risk. Worth checking into, rather than donating more of your hard-earned dough to uncle scam. Honestly, I'd rather light hundred dollar bills on fire than do that.

Poop, I'm actually thinking about retaining a *real* tax lawyer while I'm getting my severence pay (again, the company's being seriously cool about it-sending it every two weeks like a paycheck, intead of a lump sum that would be taxed at a higher rate) and asking about 401k stuff. My research only leads me to the crap about using 401k funds for a "down payment" on a house, I can't find anything about any tax relief for using the damn thing to just buy a berkeleying house outright.

I still think it's a bad idea, but could you put a 99% down payment on a house and fit the loophole?

If you are serious about the world ending don't get cash, gold is currently stupid expensive both as an investment and at $1200-$1400 and oz it is too big of a "bill" for post collapse (I want to buy a gallon of milk with a $1200 bill?) so if people do use it as currency it will come way way down in value.

So end of society coming? I'd invest in ammunition, pharmaceuticals, maybe land although it would be up to you enforce your claim and livestock (I like goats for milk and meat, sheep also work for meat and wool, or Yaks for all three).

What area of television production did you work in?

I was laid off about a year ago from the (once) largest provider of content. If you want to stay in TV production, learn to network and freelance. I'd recommend getting out while you are still young though.

And don't envy those on the coasts--most go through this process at least once every six months...for their entire lives.

dculberson wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: If this gives SWMBO & I a little place to make a stand when the Corporate American house of cards finally collapses, I'd be cool with that.

You know, if the "house of cards" really does come down, I'm not sure having MONEY is going to be any more helpful than having stocks. Either one depends on the other for value.

Did I forget to mention that the reason I'm liquidating is to buy a house outright? You're right..money may not be worth anything either if the economic version of World War Z happens..but with a roof over my head, I can aim better in the rain..

Dave, from what I can tell, you can only borrow against it for a down payment, and since it's a loan, you can only borrow half.

redvalkerie, I actually got out of production and went back to Master Control to get into a market that pays a living wage. I haven't actually made anything in 20yrs. Lots of tech changes since then..I've never even done non-linear editing. I've stayed largely updated on the theory..but most folks who want freelancers aren't ready to train anyone. I may get out of TV, it's a shrinking industry anyway.

In reply to friedgreencorrado:

I actually see quite a few jobs ads for Master Control...all over the place on locations though. What area of the country are you in? Maybe I know someone around you that can help out.

You can pick up non-linear editing super quick so don't let that hold you back from applying for a position. Get a friendly editor to run you through the differences in Final Cut and Avid--which are mostly layout and hot button type differences.

The problem with TV right now is the economy and the rise of the freelancer/DIYers. What used to be a fairly high skilled industry became the land of anybody-can-do-its thanks to Apple, Final Cut, and improving camera technology/dropping costs. All of the larger companies either downsized, brought their production in-house, or folded. Read up on the great fall of Winnercomm--I was there. Bad things happened but I love everyone there that I worked with.

You might consider getting into freelancing. Borrow a camera, load some editing software onto your computer, and practice. When you think you have the necessary understanding of equipment, approach a local small business and ask if they would like a commercial or web video shot.

I'd hate to get out of TV after being in it for twenty years...although, have you considered teaching television to high school or college students?

I'll give you all the help I can--I've been where you are. It's far from the end of the world, and in my case, was the beginning of greater things.

Red, what I'd really like to do is get into the next generation media providers' thing. If Nexflix was based in Atlanta, I'd be detailing the CEO's car. If my own company was a little more pro-active about the decline of cable, I'd already have a job in that department. We do have a small Video On Demand for internet and moblie phone, but only provide very limited selections from our library. I suppose we're "missing the boat" here because it's cheaper to use VOD in an attempt to drive viewers back to the networks than it is to buy/build enough infrastructure to provide the entire library online.

IMO, that's a mistake. I guess time will tell if I'm right or not..I'm sure the folks in higher management are watching the net neutrality battle very closely. Perhaps that explains their reluctance to "get on board" with what I consider is the new reality..legislation (or in our case, the lack thereof) would make the investment to actually do the deed worthless.

OK, back to reality! I should mention that we really don't want to relocate.

I've thought about teaching, but with the industry in flux..I don't know if what I have to teach is worth anything anymore. OTOH, if the folks at the local vocational school don't know that yet, it's a possibility.

You were at Winnercomm (aside: didn't y'all invent the skycam?) when they got bought by Outdoor? Yikes! Here at (company name withheld to preserve severance pay), we didn't have anything like that happen in our production department since we were one of the first to go the freelance route for production. All of us in Master Control thought we were pretty safe after our own merger. It might have taken the corporate folks 10yrs to do it, but we've started outsourcing MC, and here I am.

I really think I'll be OK in the short term. SWMBO just started a new job (and got the Jag sold), with the depressed housing market, we'll be able to buy something with what's left of the 401k after taxes, and if I can find a BMWE36 job soon, I'll be getting "double paychecks" (the severance is paid every 2wks like a paycheck, so the taxes are much less than a lump sum).

I agree with you..I don't know what those "greater things" might be yet, but I'm thinking that this really is the beginning of them..

Wally wrote: Everyone complains there's nothing good on TV, How hard can it be to start a channel.

Wally, harder than you'd think. The folks that have enough money to buy all the infrastructure required don't want to hear about how cool your programming would be..they just wanna know how many eyeballs you can capture. TV's not about "the public interest", or even "entertainment" anymore. It's about selling the E36 M3 in the commercials. That's why there's nothing on anymore. They don't care what you want to see, they care about what the morons who will buy something just because it's in a pretty commercial want to see.

friedgreencorrado wrote: ...(again, the company's being seriously cool about it-sending it every two weeks like a paycheck, intead of a lump sum that would be taxed at a higher rate)

You've said this twice now. I'm no accountant, but I think you are mistaken.

You're annual income will be the same regardless of whether you make it in one lump or every two weeks. Your income tax liability is based on your annual income.

Depending on the way the company's books are set up, it might effect your withholding amount, but not your actual liability. If more were withheld, you'd get it back when you file your taxes.

I'd rather get the one time lump payment, so I could invest it and earn a return on it.

friedgreencorrado wrote: I have to admit..politically, I'm a lil' left of center. I think there's more badness to come for regular folks in the US, and that I should liquidate the 401k *now*, regardless of the tax penalties, while it's still worth anything at all. The company I have my 401k with actually has most of it tied up in stocks, and I think that I'm a *very* lucky man to be able get it out of there before the *next* stock market collapse.

This is not a little left of center. It's a fairly radical extreme. It's also not good investment advice.

Assuming you've still got a few years left before retirement, it is pretty likely there will be at least one, possibly two more recessions before you use it.

That doesn't mean you cash it all in and buy guns and gold.

It means you diversify well and allocate your investments for the best position possible (probably heavy in large company international stocks).

When a recession happens, you re-balance the portfolio.

Most people who took a hit in 2008 have essentially recovered all that was lost on paper. If they had properly re-balanced their portfolios, they would have made a lot of money.

For example- let's say your portfolio is 50/50- half in growth funds, and half in "safe" stuff- bonds, etc. The market tanks, and you take a 25% hit, but it is mostly in the growth funds. Your portfolio is now out of balance with your plan. You lost half the value of your stocks, so 75% of the portfolio is now in bonds. Re-balance, and stick with the plan. Now is not the time to sell stocks, it's the time to buy. Trade enough of the bonds to get back to the 50/50 plan, and you will be positioned to win as the market rebounds.

You are suggesting you take a tax hit now so you can invest the smaller amount that is left in your portfolio in a narrow and un-diversified way- loosing the tax benefits, paying the penalty, and positioning yourself to loose money when whatever sector you dump all your money into dives. It's bad investment thinking.

SVreX, thanks for the concern..but I'm not talking about investing. I no longer care about investments. I care about having a roof over our heads when the gravy train (severance pay & medical benefits until Dec. 2011) runs out. The future is not important when you have to worry about the present.

Ironically, considering my own lack of "long term" concerns, I think I finally understand the lack of such thinking on the part of the executives that called for the layoffs in the first place. Call it panic if you will..I call it survival.

I work in an industry that is shrinking. One of the things that infuriates me when "experts" pontificate upon joblessness in this nation is the ridiculous notion that all jobs are somehow equal, as if losing my $25 an hour job, and then finding one at a retail store for $8-10 an hour is somehow "equal". All that garbage does is suggest that there is no real impact upon the economy, since I'm no longer counted as "jobless" anymore. No one but better writers than I on "the left" (who whine on Alternet/Huffington/Common Dreams, etc.) seems to understand that this fact. Jeez, you'd think that anyone that can do math would be able to notice that when an individual has a reduced income..they are no longer able to contribute to our economy as much as they once did.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103380942

Berkeley "investing", berkeley the stock market, and berkeley my misguided belief that hard work and loyalty to my company would reward me with a mellow retirement. I'm an idiot. My own fault, I suppose..I saw my mother & father participate in such things..and succeed. Mea culpa, I forgot that Ronald Reagan came along when they were already close to retirement.

My only hope of escaping poverty after my little "gravy train" runs out is to abandon my 20th century thinking, and accept the reality of 21st century America. And furthermore, to attempt to gather the few bits of the past that survived (like the 401k I've poured money into for the last 20-25yrs), and use them to dig a little foxhole that myself, my daughter, the woman I love, and her son can lie in.

When the market rebounds, I will not own enough stock (either personally, or in my 401k) to make much of a difference to how I will live. That crap is for people who own enough shares to actually influence the behavior of the corporations. I finally understand that my best interests lie within fully divesting myself of the tools of their madness, and using the few crumbs left to me as their former serf to find some way to survive.

I curse myself that it took me so long to understand such a simple thing..