Have your papers ready Hess
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080813/ap_on_re_us/arkansas_town_curfew
HELENA-WEST HELENA, Ark. - Officers armed with military rifles have been stopping and questioning passers-by in a neighborhood plagued by violence that's been under a 24-hour curfew for a week.
On Tuesday, the Helena-West Helena City Council voted 9-0 to allow police to expand that program into any area of the city, despite a warning from a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union of Arkansas that the police stops were unconstitutional.
Police Chief Fred Fielder said the patrols have netted 32 arrests since they began last week in a 10-block neighborhood in this small town on the banks of the Mississippi River long troubled by poverty. The council said those living in the city want the random shootings and drug-fueled violence to stop, no matter what the cost.
"Now if somebody wants to sue us, they have an option to sue, but I'm fairly certain that a judge will see it the way the way the citizens see it here," Mayor James Valley said. "The citizens deserve peace, that some infringement on constitutional rights is OK and we have not violated anything as far as the Constitution."
The area under curfew, in what used to be a West Helena neighborhood, sits among abandoned homes and occupied residences in disrepair.
White signs on large blue barrels warn those passing by that the area remains under curfew by order of Mayor James Valley. The order was scheduled to end at 3 p.m. Tuesday, but Valley said the city council's vote would allow police to have the same powers across Helena-West Helena.
Among the curfew operation's arrests, 10 came from felony charges, including the arrest of two people carrying both drugs and weapons, Fielder said. The police chief said the officers in the field carry military-style M-16 or M-4 rifles, some equipped with laser sights. Other officers carry short-barrel shotguns. Many dealing crack cocaine and marijuana in the city carry pistols and AK-47 assault rifles, he said.
"We've had people call us, expressing concern for their children," Fielder said. "They had to sleep on the floor, because of stray bullets."
Fielder said officers had not arrested anyone for violating the curfew, only questioned people about why they were outside. Those without good answers or acting nervously get additional attention, Fielder said.
However, such stops likely violate residents' constitutional rights to freely assemble and protections against unreasonable police searches, said Holly Dickson, a lawyer for the ACLU of Arkansas who addressed the council at its packed Tuesday meeting. Because of that, Dickson said any convictions coming from the arrests likely would be overturned.
"The residents of these high-crime areas are already victims," she said. "They're victims of what are happening in the neighborhoods, they're victims of fear. But for them to be subject to unlawful stops and questioning ... that is not going to ultimately going to help this situation."
The council rejected Dickson's claims, at one point questioning the Little Rock-based attorney if she'd live in a neighborhood they described as under siege by wild gunfire and gangs.
"As far as I'm concerned, at 3 o'clock in the morning, nobody has any business being on the street, except the law," Councilman Eugene "Red" Johnson said. "Anyone out at 3 o'clock shouldn't be out on the street, unless you're going to the hospital."
The curfew is the second under the mayor's watch since the rival cities of Helena and West Helena merged in 2006. That year, Valley set a nightly citywide curfew after a rash of burglaries and other thefts.
Police in Hartford, Conn., began enforcing a nightly curfew for youths after recent violence, including a weekend shooting that killed a man and wounded six young people.
Helena-West Helena, with 15,000 residents at the edge of Arkansas' eastern rice fields and farmland, is in one of the nation's poorest regions, trailing even parts of Appalachia in its standard of living.
In the curfew area, those inside the homes in the watch area peered out of door cracks Tuesday as police cruisers passed. They closed the doors afterward.
Our cites.. suck!
Reaon?
Welfare.
Generation after generations on welfare.
No need to work to put food on the table. Just put your hand out and it will be filled.
Same with housing, and on and on
Too much free time to run the streets.
Cancell welfare ( and put all of our inner cities on lack down...)
And let natural selection runit's course
I am going to blame the English departments.
SoloSonett wrote:
Our cites.. suck!
Reaon?
Welfare.
Generation after generations on welfare.
No need to work to put food on the table. Just put your hand out and it will be filled.
Same with housing, and on and on
Too much free time to run the streets.
Cancell welfare ( and put all of our inner cities on lack down...)
And let natural selection runit's course
Compassionate Conservatism at it's best!
(also spellcheck..sheesh.)
"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither." BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
Since I'm done soap boxing..
The residents could start by talking to the police about the crime they've witnessed. Next, the police could start community policing instead of occupation. Build a relationship with the community so as to encourage people to come forward.
The job isn't easy, on either side, but military law being enforced is not how a Democracy is run.
Coming soon to a city near you. Vote D to bring it on faster.
Or, vote for another Democrat
and watch all our cities crash and burn
GlennS
HalfDork
8/13/08 9:34 a.m.
i blame our drug policies for the inner cities. Im sure its just part of the problem though.
GlennS wrote:
i blame our drug policies for the inner cities. Im sure its just part of the problem though.
When the prohibition on alcohol was repealed, criminals lost a source of revenue. How many criminals do you see making money off of alcohol, and defending that money with violence?
The war on drugs is a failure, and has been since day one.
captainzib wrote:
GlennS wrote:
i blame our drug policies for the inner cities. Im sure its just part of the problem though.
When the prohibition on alcohol was repealed, criminals lost a source of revenue. How many criminals do you see making money off of alcohol, and defending that money with violence?
The war on drugs is a failure, and has been since day one.
the older i get.. the more I agree. Legalize it.. so we can tax it and make big dollars off of it. Just get a tank to drive around, so when high folks smash into my family, they will be OK
ignorant wrote:
captainzib wrote:
GlennS wrote:
i blame our drug policies for the inner cities. Im sure its just part of the problem though.
When the prohibition on alcohol was repealed, criminals lost a source of revenue. How many criminals do you see making money off of alcohol, and defending that money with violence?
The war on drugs is a failure, and has been since day one.
the older i get.. the more I agree. Legalize it.. so we can tax it and make big dollars off of it. Just get a tank to drive around, so when high folks smash into my family, they will be OK
High folks drive so slow you'll see em coming from a long way away.
Mayor James Valley said:...that some infringement on constitutional rights is OK and we have not violated anything as far as the Constitution.
Does this guy listen to himself when he speaks?
I cannot believe that we are coming up with better ideas here on an internet forum than expert councils in the actual places in which this is taking place.
Give me Liberty or give me death. (Trivia: who coined this famous expression?)
Ethan Allen.
My mother served on the city council of a town not all that far from Helena/West Helena. Calling the people on those small town city councils "experts" is pretty generous. She has stories...
confuZion3 wrote:
I cannot believe that we are coming up with better ideas here on an internet forum than expert councils in the actual places in which this is taking place.
Give me Liberty or give me death. (Trivia: who coined this famous expression?)
Teddy Roosevelt, right?
I think the answer to why this E36 M3 is happening is corruption. These politicians are in the game for their own gain. A public official has the task of "serving the public".
It is not the publics concern for elected officials to drive luxury cars, or live in mansions.
Tim Baxter wrote:
Ethan Allen.
My mother served on the city council of a town not all that far from Helena/West Helena. Calling the people on those small town city councils "experts" is pretty generous. She has stories...
And we have time...
I must be living an a parallel universe. Where I live the Republicans have had the presidency since 2000 and the Congress for nearly 12 years.
Dr. Hess wrote:
Coming soon to a city near you. Vote D to bring it on faster.
captainzib wrote:
GlennS wrote:
i blame our drug policies for the inner cities. Im sure its just part of the problem though.
When the prohibition on alcohol was repealed, criminals lost a source of revenue. How many criminals do you see making money off of alcohol, and defending that money with violence?
The war on drugs is a failure, and has been since day one.
Correct,
Time to put those DEA $$$ elswhere.
Tax legal drugs and fund re-habs
Need proof?
Look to history.
And Detroit. The DEA shut down ALL drugs into Detroit,
for two days!
The demand was SO great and he profits SO high, everyone was stepping in to supply.
I suspect they see it as:
We would rather have the police violate our constitutional right than have the drug dealers / thugs do it.
Still, probably not a good solution, it doesn't seem to do anything to address the problem in the long run (unless they are planning on keeping this up forever). So what are they hoping, the bad people will just leave the town?
I am a bit confused about the quote that the Democrats will make this worse. Isn't it the current administration that wants all the "Patriot Act" stuff? BTW - don't kid yourself, there is very little difference between the two parties at this point, it's all crap...
They think they can just round up all the bad apples and put them away. Given that it's a small town, they might just do it, but my bet is the whole thing will go away when someone prominent in the city--or their kid--gets picked up.
Dr. Hess wrote:
Coming soon to a city near you. Vote D to bring it on faster.
Since 6 years of solid R's brought this on, yes, D's would be a refreshing change, wouldn't it?
Altough, many of the R's are just as happy stomping on your consitutional rights in the name of safety and security, too....
Sorry, Doc, you are F.O.S. on this one.
Blaming it on welfare is funny, too- we do our best to help the underprivledgesd of society, to the point where that help is the cause of violence?
No, it's the long standing R "War on Drugs" that's the real problem here.
Wanna stop people from using it? Legalize it and tax it. Some people are so averse to tax that they would avoid using drugs... well the republicans would. Even if it would save them money. :)
Eric
once again.. I agree with alfadriver..
This city/small town, is in a rural part of Arkansas....there is VERY little employment. So putting folks to work to give them something better to do isn't much of an option.
I live an hour/hour and a half from this area, in a large city and we have the same problem: children and adults roaming the streets at all hours. You know how I know when there is a school HOLIDAY? All the kids are OFF the streets. I don't know where they go, but you don't see nearly as many walking around as you do when school is in session.
I've had the windshield and several other windows on cars broken out over the years by "thugs" who wanted to "get their jollies". My recent experience? Give these folks a job and they barely do it.
This isn't a D or R thing. It's both. The Democrats want programs that encourage men to walk out on their families, women to become urban brood mares, and neither of them to work. The Republicans insist on continuing the stupid war on drugs bullE36 M3 which turns people who have no family and no reason to work into criminals.
So, where's the big D push to decriminalize drugs? Where was Uncle Bill for 8 years while not getting a BJ from the hired help? Personally, as I have said before (look it up now that the Search Button works), I think we should completely decriminalize drugs and give them away free at government run drug centers. Just be sure to give out a LD100 quantity (look that up if you don't know what it is, maybe you can find a WIKI) and the problem will take care of itself.
After 50 years of welfare, the poor of the country are worse off now than they were then, except they have better TV's now. I'd say that the system isn't working. The D's solution to poor people? Kill them off before they are born and they won't be a problem.
Another thing to consider is that in these small towns, there are no jobs. Seriously. The small town I grew up in, just down the river from Helena, had 25% unemployment when I left. If you were white, you might get a job. Getting on at the Wal-Mart was a big deal, even though you had to drive 20 miles to the next town to get there. If you were black, farm labor was probably your best bet, and that was iffy.
If you look at the Helena job listings over the past 30 days (I just did), there's less than a dozen of them, not counting the Army or Border Patrol.
Maybe we should round up all the poor people and put them in the Army.
