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barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/2/22 3:31 p.m.

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

I don't think I'd want to either. But the ability to have one loaded for the last shot, if all else fails. Or just 30% more shot than a 2.75 even if it isn't a slug. The magnums would only ever be a defensive load. Maybe one or two for the experience, but that's it. 

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
3/2/22 3:55 p.m.
barefootcyborg5000 said:

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

I don't think I'd want to either. But the ability to have one loaded for the last shot, if all else fails. Or just 30% more shot than a 2.75 even if it isn't a slug. The magnums would only ever be a defensive load. Maybe one or two for the experience, but that's it. 

I don't think you'd want 3 inch for any sort of defense let alone 3.5 inch. The 3.5 was more made for goose hunting than anything else.

 

Most defence 12 gauge is reduced power/recoil and for bear a good 2 3/4 brenneke slug is great.

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/2/22 4:01 p.m.

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

Also good insight. Thank you. I'm still very much learning. 

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
3/2/22 4:06 p.m.
barefootcyborg5000 said:

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

Also good insight. Thank you. I'm still very much learning. 

Absolutely, and here is a much better place than a gun forum to learn. I abhor gun forums.

 

3.5 inch slugs are something like 2 or 3 times recoil than something like a 30-06 iirc

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/2/22 4:50 p.m.

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

I mean, part of me wants to get one just to see what it's like. I used to have a coach gun with two triggers. Guess who pulled both at the same time?

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/2/22 5:01 p.m.

The other day when I was out shopping, I happened to be at the store when the Benelli rep showed up. He put the sales pitch on pretty hard. The dept. manager also told me they have a fraction of the return rate, and with a ten year warranty... Anyway, maybe it was just all confirmation bias, but there we are. 
But as I was leaving, the Benelli rep told me to look at the Stoeger offerings. Similar guns for $200 cheaper. That buys a lot of practice. Idk. Local shop has one too. 

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/3/22 6:53 p.m.
llysgennad said:
Noddaz said:
llysgennad said:

Long shot (hah) but has anyone ever played with a 6.5 x 50 Arisaka? I have one and am toying with trying to find ammo to play around with it. Supposed to be good out to 200-250yds which is my favorite distance.

I have one.  Ammo is way too expensive to take it out very often.  Last time was before covid.

Yeah, about $3/rd is all I've found. What's it like to shoot? Just like any other old bolt action I assume? I've never shot anything with a bayonet attached. Could be fun

It is a fun rifle to shoot.  Low kick due to the 6.5 casing.  Mine is accurate (for me) out to 50 yards.

But the bullets are goofy looking.

Round nose and long.   My brain keeps telling me it should be Spitzer bullet just for aerodynamics.

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/3/22 6:55 p.m.
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:
barefootcyborg5000 said:

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

Also good insight. Thank you. I'm still very much learning. 

Absolutely, and here is a much better place than a gun forum to learn. I abhor gun forums.

 

 

Aww, come on.  It can be fun to stick an unpopular but true fact into a gun forum and wave it around.

 

Oapfu
Oapfu GRM+ Memberand New Reader
3/3/22 7:25 p.m.
Noddaz said:

Aww, come on.  It can be fun to stick an unpopular but true fact into a gun forum and wave it around.

Dude, your so WRONGG!! Ware I live that get you arrested for BRANDISHING!!

cheeky

Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos)
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/4/22 2:35 p.m.
Noddaz said: Aww, come on.  It can be fun to stick an unpopular but true fact into a gun forum and wave it around.

 

And then not respond to the uproar that happens until a week later with a single post. Rinse, repeat.

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/4/22 3:41 p.m.
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:
Noddaz said: Aww, come on.  It can be fun to stick an unpopular but true fact into a gun forum and wave it around.

 

And then not respond to the uproar that happens until a week later with a single post. Rinse, repeat.

Even I am not that insane...

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
3/4/22 3:51 p.m.

So let's say you wanted a rifle you could get readily and without spending a fortune that would be of some actual use against an invading army. What would it be?

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/4/22 4:19 p.m.
tuna55 said:

So let's say you wanted a rifle you could get readily and without spending a fortune that would be of some actual use against an invading army. What would it be?

Without any actual hard core evidence to back up my choice I would say a pistol caliber carbine in 9mm.

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/4/22 4:21 p.m.

In reply to tuna55 :

Invading army? What's a fortune?

Easiest answer is AR. 10 or 15 depending on intended usage. Cheap new market is around 500, good new is closer to 800 from what I've seen. Cheaper would be an AK or SKS. 7.62 Russian is super cheap to shoot, and the rifles are designed to work in the worst conditions, wet or muddy or cold, they'll still fire. 
If you can keep covered and distant, a good bolt or lever gun in something like .308 or -06 or one of their variants. Cheap and available. 

I am not an expert, or even smart. I'm looking out for me and mine against home intrusions at worst. An army? Idk man. 
 

*Edit for clarity. I suggest the AR platform for a variety of reasons. If it is a modern army, they are using automatic or semiautomatic. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight. The armalite designs have been around for a long time and are simple and known. .223 offers very little recoil, very little weight if you need to carry any quantity. The bigger ar10 offers more range and much more power, but in a slightly larger and heavier package. Of note, there hasn't been a time where I haven't been able to find .308 over the last couple years. 

stroker
stroker UberDork
3/4/22 4:28 p.m.
tuna55 said:

So let's say you wanted a rifle you could get readily and without spending a fortune that would be of some actual use against an invading army. What would it be?

Is this assuming you're in the U.S.?  Those surplus Mosin Nagant that were stupid-cheap a decade or two ago would have been a good bet.  I bought one for my brother but he didn't like the amount of recoil and preferred the AR-15 I bought for him.   Wish I'd bought more of those Ishapore Enfields in 7.62 Nato but I didn't have the money....   Otherwise, some flavor of AR/AK is prolly the best bet these days due to ammo availability.  

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
3/4/22 4:30 p.m.
barefootcyborg5000 said:

In reply to tuna55 :

Invading army? What's a fortune?

Easiest answer is AR. 10 or 15 depending on intended usage. Cheap new market is around 500, good new is closer to 800 from what I've seen. 
If you can keep covered and distant, a good bolt or lever gun in something like .308 or -06 or one of their variants. Cheap and available. 

I am not an expert, or even smart. I'm looking out for me and mine against home intrusions at worst. An army? Idk man. 

Same. I don't even own a rifle. A shotgun and pistol completely serve my needs. I was watching Ukraine and wondering what would be helpful in that situation. My mind went to ar10 but can you get a large enough caliber to make a potshot at a passing fighter jet actually feel it? 

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/4/22 4:33 p.m.

In reply to tuna55 :

AR 10 seems to be only .308win or 6.5cm. You'd have to be a much better shot than me to knock anything out of the air with either. I'm thinking that is Hollywood level marksmanship at best. 
 

In AR flavors, 6.5cm costs about twice what .308 does, which costs about twice what .223, which is about twice 7.62x39. There are others, but these are the easiest to find. 
 

 

*edit for another though that is worth what it costs. In a fight or die situation, anything is better than nothing. And you'll be the most effective using what you are most comfortable with. In that vein, maybe we shouldn't dismiss the venerable and familiar .22lr. Low noise, low recoil, $200 buys a reputable stick and buying in bulk means a nickel per shot. Thoughts?

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/4/22 4:57 p.m.

My mind went to ar10 but can you get a large enough caliber to make a potshot at a passing fighter jet actually feel it? 

That would be a luck shot at best.

How far away is the jet?  How fast is the jet going?  And then how much do you lead the jet?

Nope.  My Dad (WW2 story) used to tell a story from the war in the Pacific.  He and the men with him were on some dirt trail in the jungle when a Japanese plane approached.  The other guys left the vehicle they were with and ran into the jungle.   Dad jumps on the back of the vehicle and starts shooting at the plane.  As far as he knew, he missed.  And the other guys?  "You stupid effin' rookie, now the Japanese know where we are."  (Dad, I hope I told that right.)

What I am saying is the only way small arms would be effective against a jet would be:

1)taking off

2)landing

3)parked

 

stroker
stroker UberDork
3/4/22 4:58 p.m.

I have a feeling a scoped 10/22 with a really good suppressor and a 50 round mag might be highly desirable in Ukraine right quick....

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/4/22 5:04 p.m.

In reply to stroker :

That's kinda what I was thinking. Cheap to get, cheap to use, cheap to tinker with. Makes it easy to train and use. A fellow could jam a bunch of spares in his autocross cargo shorts. It's basically the Miata of the shooting world. 

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
3/4/22 10:05 p.m.
tuna55 said:

So let's say you wanted a rifle you could get readily and without spending a fortune that would be of some actual use against an invading army. What would it be?

I wouldn't put too much stock in that idea just because war involves a lot more than singular people firing at each other. I'm explaining it badly because my brain is pudding at the moment, but there's a lot going on there.

 

Looking at it more as an extension of a home defence situation I'd recommend a pistol caliber carbine in the caliber you already own 1st. Ar15s next and there are literally thousands of options

matthewmcl
matthewmcl Dork
3/4/22 10:19 p.m.
tuna55 said:

So let's say you wanted a rifle you could get readily and without spending a fortune that would be of some actual use against an invading army. What would it be?

Lots of good advice above. AR and AK types top the list. These days ARs seem to be cheaper than AKs. Covid pricing has 7.62x39 at about 3/4 the cost of .223, but .223 has higher quality options available. If you were worried about wartime or other fiasco, you will find more people with .223 to share than 7.62x39. The full power stuff (.308, 7.62x54, etc.) is less effective until you are far enough away that you are beyond the range that low budget is good at. By effective, I mean more factors than just retained energy, obviously. There are a lot of reasons why every military that can afford it went to some approximation of .22 caliber.

It took me a long time to turn away from full power battle rifle approaches, but you can double tap target to target with .223 faster than you can single tap the same multiple targets with .308, while .223 is less than 1/2 the weight. That is more energy, faster, cheaper, and more chances to hit. .308 moves you so much more, you can lose your target during recovery much more easily, so unless you can hit a moving target the first time, every time, you are more likely to get an eventual hit with a .223 than a .308. For the same weight, you can carry twice as much .223 than .308. In regards to a PCC, .223 is lighter than 9mm. Those factors are important if you are running out of a Ukrainian apartment that is about to be hit with a Russian rocket and you budgeted 10 pounds for spare ammo (random round number that correlates to about 200 rounds of .308 or 400 rounds of .223).

The Ukrainians are using the (arguably) best chambering that they could be, but availability of 5.45x39 knocks it out of the running in this country.

Justjim75
Justjim75 SuperDork
3/9/22 9:03 a.m.

The the answer for the "which gun for....."  question is always the same, It's the firearm that you are comfortable and accurate with, the one you have ammo for, the dead nuts reliable one that you know won't fail when you've got something trying to hurt you.  The only thing that matters is getting hits.

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
3/9/22 9:09 a.m.
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:
tuna55 said:

So let's say you wanted a rifle you could get readily and without spending a fortune that would be of some actual use against an invading army. What would it be?

I wouldn't put too much stock in that idea just because war involves a lot more than singular people firing at each other. I'm explaining it badly because my brain is pudding at the moment, but there's a lot going on there.

 

Looking at it more as an extension of a home defence situation I'd recommend a pistol caliber carbine in the caliber you already own 1st. Ar15s next and there are literally thousands of options

Depends on your locale. If I was Hungary Bill I'd be looking for an AK variant as they are much easier to find ammo, mags etc. In the US? 5.56 AR. Pretty much every police station in the country uses them, the military etc. NG depots are located nationwide. A 16"AR is a great intermediate sized rifle. 

In reply to bobzilla :

I had that same thing typed out to almost the word. 

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