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If the SHTF, anything .22, 9mm, .223/556, or .308 (NATO).  Ammo availability is a key component, as well as a reliable platform.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
3/9/22 11:47 a.m.
Dirtydog (Forum Supporter) said:

If the SHTF, anything .22, 9mm, .223/556, or .308 (NATO).  Ammo availability is a key component, as well as a reliable platform.

Can you explain 308 NATO? It's not the same as regualr 308? If I have a bolt action 30-06 for hunting, and an AR in 308 or 556, what's the difference in ballistics alone?

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/9/22 11:58 a.m.

In reply to tuna55 :

.308win and 7.62 NATO are nearly identical, similar to .223rem and 5.56. 
An AR15 cannot be chambered in .308 since the cartridge is too long, so you'd need to step up to the larger framed aR10. As for the differences between .308 and 7.62, IIRC the .308 runs at slightly higher pressure. My rifle eats both indiscriminately. 
A chart for quick comparison:

from This website

my personal input is only regarding recoil. The difference is big. 

matthewmcl
matthewmcl Dork
3/9/22 12:01 p.m.

In reply to tuna55 :

.308 Winchester and 7.62x51 NATO are the same thing. Writing .308 NATO is shorthand that takes fewer keystrokes.  .30-06 will do everything a .308 can do and do it better, except for that part of fitting in a slightly shorter action and/or fitting in .308 length magazines.

I use Quickload, which is the geekiest piece of firearm software I have ever used and I love it. If you can narrow down what you would like to compare, I can give you lots of data (with explanations).

Justjim75
Justjim75 SuperDork
3/13/22 12:33 a.m.

Kriss Vector in .45 with a can (want)

AR15 (have, wellll equipped)

SKS (have one) or AK variant

Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos)
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/13/22 1:07 a.m.
tuna55 said:

So let's say you wanted a rifle you could get readily and without spending a fortune that would be of some actual use against an invading army. What would it be?

Plenty of people posted what I'd say already, so...

My answer that hasn't already been posted would be to get on one of the trains leaving that country, but if I was staying, it'd be "whatever my government was going to hand me."

Having a shotgun, pistol and rifle on hand is what I'm comfortable with. You've got 2/3 of it covered. An AR-15 is the next logical step. Then a 10/22 or pistol carbine. 

Hot take: A lever action rifle in .357 Magnum or .44 Magnum and a good horse may not be a bad idea, either.

 

Dirtydog (Forum Supporter)
Dirtydog (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand Dork
3/13/22 10:36 a.m.
tuna55 said:
Dirtydog (Forum Supporter) said:

If the SHTF, anything .22, 9mm, .223/556, or .308 (NATO).  Ammo availability is a key component, as well as a reliable platform.

Can you explain 308 NATO? It's not the same as regualr 308? If I have a bolt action 30-06 for hunting, and an AR in 308 or 556, what's the difference in ballistics alone?

I should have been more clear.  NATO rounds are 7.62/51.  The difference between .308 and 7.62 are slight, but the .308 has a higher pressure, and the head spacing is different.  You can "safely" shoot 7.62 through a .308, but err on the side of caution, shooting .308 through a 7.62 designated rifle, due to the higher pressure.

Dirtydog (Forum Supporter)
Dirtydog (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand Dork
3/13/22 10:40 a.m.
matthewmcl
matthewmcl Dork
3/14/22 8:12 a.m.

Something not often mentioned is that the US military method for measuring pressure is not the same as the SAAMI method of measuring pressure (nor the same as CIP for across the pond), so identical loads can yield different pressure readings. Comparing a military pressure spec to a sporting spec is not apples to apples. It is also easy to look at something and say, "this is .005 in. different from that," but if you actually measure multiple manufacturers of the same spec ammo, you will find multiple differences larger than .005 in.  Here are the SAAMI cartridge and chamber dimensions for .308 Winchester.  Keep in mind that test barrels are usually much closer to nominal than production rifle spreads. Notice the .010 spread for headspace in the chamber, .007 spread on headspace on the cartridge, and the nominal .015 length tolerance for non-specified portions of the case. Will erring on the side of caution ever cause danger? No, but you really don't have to worry about it, either. Also keep in mind this is just a post from another person on the internet. 

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/20/22 8:09 p.m.

I wasn't gonna post this, but my current project has me all worked up. 
 

I'm not done, still waiting on a few bits in the mail, and taking my time. But the paint is coming out fantastic. 
 

Meet Sparklefarts, my little purple pistol. 

fatallightning
fatallightning Reader
3/21/22 1:05 p.m.

Curious to see how that holds up under the rigors. Are you clearing on top?

jharry3
jharry3 GRM+ Memberand Dork
3/21/22 1:27 p.m.
matthewmcl said:

In reply to tuna55 :

.308 Winchester and 7.62x51 NATO are the same thing. Writing .308 NATO is shorthand that takes fewer keystrokes.  .30-06 will do everything a .308 can do and do it better, except for that part of fitting in a slightly shorter action and/or fitting in .308 length magazines.

I use Quickload, which is the geekiest piece of firearm software I have ever used and I love it. If you can narrow down what you would like to compare, I can give you lots of data (with explanations).

7.62 NATO vs .308 Winchester ammo: What's the difference? - Task & Purpose (taskandpurpose.com)

Not exactly the same.  7.62 x 51 (7.62 NATO) is a military cartridge with a thicker wall casing than the .308 Winchester.  Also the 7.62 casing is a little longer.

The military cartridge has a higher working pressure as well.    Most rifles can handle either one but if you have an old .308 with the chamber cut for that case length the NATO "may" cause overpressure problems.   

Different for .223 vs 5.56 military.  A rifle set up only for .223 should not be fired with the military round.  The opposite is not a problem.

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/21/22 2:18 p.m.

In reply to fatallightning :

No. It's supposedly an outdoor worthy paint, but we'll see. At this point I'm not too worried about it, just having fun. 

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/21/22 3:39 p.m.

In reply to barefootcyborg5000 :

I like it!

wawazat
wawazat SuperDork
3/21/22 6:32 p.m.
barefootcyborg5000 said:

I wasn't gonna post this, but my current project has me all worked up. 
 

I'm not done, still waiting on a few bits in the mail, and taking my time. But the paint is coming out fantastic. 
 

Meet Sparklefarts, my little purple pistol. 

That pink guitar must be impacting your decision making!  Not that that's a bad thing!

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/21/22 6:41 p.m.

In reply to wawazat :

That one has been sold and replaced by another telecaster. I am what I am. It was a pretty thing though. 

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/27/22 2:26 p.m.

Please recommend me an AR-15 wrench.  I have the parts and need to tighten them down.

And Vise-Grips or Channel-Locks are not the answer here...

Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos)
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/27/22 2:33 p.m.

Get something that looks like this:

 

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/27/22 2:38 p.m.

In reply to Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) :

Understood.  Have any brand names for a good wrench that I will use once versus a cheap wrench that I will use once?

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/27/22 2:56 p.m.

In reply to Noddaz :

There's a bunch of different ones out there. I can't recommend anything specific, mine is the cheapest one I could find locally. It seems to work just fine for just about everything. If you're assembling parts it won't help with the lower receiver much. Especially that little roll pin for the slide release. 

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/27/22 3:22 p.m.
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:

Get something that looks like this:

 

And bring it anywhere you need to ask someone a question. "I have ways to make you talk."

matthewmcl
matthewmcl Dork
3/27/22 3:51 p.m.

I also bought on the cheap and it works. If you are using a free float handguard, the only thing the wrench really does is the castle nut for an adjustable stock, and a small hammer and a screwdriver as a drift does that, as well. The other spots are mostly open end wrenches.

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/27/22 9:27 p.m.
barefootcyborg5000 said:
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:

Get something that looks like this:

 

And bring it anywhere you need to ask someone a question. "I have ways to make you talk."

Like in the Far Side...

Back to the firearms thread we were...

Squirrel!

 

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
4/4/22 4:13 p.m.

Anyone have suggestions for AR grips for a fellow with wrist issues? I find that the sharp angles of a standard grip don't do me any favors. 

matthewmcl
matthewmcl Dork
4/4/22 4:22 p.m.

In reply to barefootcyborg5000 :

I like the ERGO grips. Can you be more specific on which angles are hurting your wrist?

Edit: If you need less "finger pointing" and more "fist," because you are holding an AR pistol as a pistol, look for "prone AR grips."

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