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dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/23/20 2:19 p.m.

Gouging because they  are going to run out of parts is just not right.  Any company that gouges because of the current situation we are in is going on my personal "list" and will not be getting my business for a VERY long time.  Right now a local large format printer company has made it as did a local supplier of printed materials.

ChrisLS8
ChrisLS8 Reader
3/23/20 2:23 p.m.

In reply to Datsun310Guy :

An upcharge on parts is normal and the shops don't care about online prices as they are buying from a local store/dealer

dj06482
dj06482 GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
3/23/20 4:26 p.m.

That's expensive for Honda axles, I just looked up one for our former '05 Odyssey and they're $208 for OEM axles at Partznet.com.

Looked up the pair of Fit axles and they're $965 on the same site - ouch!!!

Steve_Jones
Steve_Jones Reader
3/23/20 6:08 p.m.

The only argument on book time vs actual is if you charge actual and an easy job turns hard because of rust parts, clamp breaks, etc. the customer isn't willing to pay for 3 hours on a job that's supposed to take 30 mins.  You have to pick a standard and stick to it

docwyte
docwyte UberDork
3/23/20 6:39 p.m.

In reply to ChrisLS8 :

Yeah but they're buying the parts for wholesale and charging over retail prices for them.  That's not right.

einy
einy HalfDork
3/23/20 6:47 p.m.

I guess it all comes down to “buyer beware”.  At least the person with the Fit got a quote first before the repair was made, and then was in a spot to have to pay three arms and two legs for the job. 

 

 

TopNoodles
TopNoodles Reader
3/23/20 6:56 p.m.

I know there are scams out there but charging over retail is ok with me. Just getting parts is a pain sometimes. I had to get two sets of brake pads because Ford put random calipers in different cars. Joe Customer thinks he can buy the cheapest thing on Amazon and take it to the dealer, and have them install it for labor only. But a shop or dealer is liable for the quality of parts they install. And sometimes OEM prices are actually insane. Those of us in the know can find quality alternatives, but that takes work and experience. For example the rear sway bar for a Maurader is something like $1200 last I checked. Most of us would just grab a P71 bar for $20 and 20 minutes at the JY and call it a day.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
3/23/20 7:19 p.m.

They don't charge their hourly rate for the actual hours the job takes. They charge their hourly rate times the number of hours shown in the book rate. 

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
3/23/20 7:37 p.m.
Toyman01 said:

I have to wonder exactly what they quoted. Were they doing wheel bearings and brakes in the same quote? Transmission service? 

I'm betting it was a case of she needed axles. They quoted axles, plus whatever service the computer told them to recommend for the mileage of the vehicle. She probably didn't know to tell them to stick it.

Edited for clarity. 

No the price quoted was just the axles. I looked at the quote; $1950 for axles with aftermarket parts, $165 for an alignment, and then they had other suggested repairs (low priority stuff) totaling another $1000 or so. 
 

I don't have a source for the official "book rate" the dealership would use, but the instructions with the axles said 1.25 hours per side and my experience bore that out with "advanced diy" tools and shop - I assume a dealer tech would be faster. That even includes a couple breaks for YouTube sanity checks on procedure and one snl skit. 

zordak
zordak Reader
3/24/20 9:34 a.m.

My granddaughter took her 03 buick to a shop because the heater blower was not working they wanted $800 to fix. The part was $30 at the local parts store and the wole youtube video was 10 min long to replace it with no editing. I taught her to do it in about 1 hour.

Toyman01
Toyman01 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/24/20 10:38 a.m.

In reply to dculberson :

And this is why everyone should have at least one car guy/gal in their life. Good on you for throwing out a flag and saving her some dollars.

While I''m all for charging what the market will bear, I'm also a firm believer that their arrogance should cost them business. 

wawazat
wawazat HalfDork
3/24/20 10:52 a.m.

Was this just a tactic to not do the job?  

Toebra
Toebra Dork
3/24/20 11:02 a.m.

It was to get her to just trade it in so they could fix it for $500 and flip it for $5000 in profit

Toyman01
Toyman01 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/24/20 11:06 a.m.

In reply to wawazat :

That could be. I have been known to throw out some high prices for jobs I either don't want or don't have time for. It has been known to back fire as well, but at least then it's worth the money. 

I would think an axle swap would be easy money though. 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
3/24/20 1:46 p.m.

I'm almost a little uncomfortable with the phrase "overcharging". 

That's their price. And I think it's in line with other dealers. 

I wouldn't pay it. And I'm proud that dculberson has graciously offered to help a friend in need. 

But "fair market value" is defined as the price a willing buyer and a willing seller can agree to when neither is under duress.

Can someone else charge less?  Sure.  It's up to the buyer to determine if that is a good value or not.

In an age when anyone can get on the internet and learn anything they want, buyers should be informed.  There's no excuse to not be educated.

Its not that the vendor is "overcharging".  An informed buyer should make whatever decision they need to, and let the vendor decide what they want to sell the service for.  If the vendor wants to make sales, and needs to lower their price to make those sales, so be it.

They are not "gouging".  They are quoting their normal price (which is higher than many others would charge).

Sellers have a right to sell their services for whatever they want to.  Buyers get to choose whether to buy or not.   No harm, no foul.

 

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
3/24/20 1:50 p.m.
SVreX said:

But "fair market value" is defined as the price a willing buyer and a willing seller can agree to when neither is under duress.

And in this case, their price was higher than a willing buyer was willing to agree to - hence, it was overpriced.

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
3/24/20 2:09 p.m.
SVreX said:

I'm almost a little uncomfortable with the phrase "overcharging". 

That's their price. And I think it's in line with other dealers. 

I wouldn't pay it. And I'm proud that dculberson has graciously offered to help a friend in need. 

But "fair market value" is defined as the price a willing buyer and a willing seller can agree to when neither is under duress.

Can someone else charge less?  Sure.  It's up to the buyer to determine if that is a good value or not.

In an age when anyone can get on the internet and learn anything they want, buyers should be informed.  There's no excuse to not be educated.

Its not that the vendor is "overcharging".  An informed buyer should make whatever decision they need to, and let the vendor decide what they want to sell the service for.  If the vendor wants to make sales, and needs to lower their price to make those sales, so be it.

They are not "gouging".  They are quoting their normal price (which is higher than many others would charge).

Sellers have a right to sell their services for whatever they want to.  Buyers get to choose whether to buy or not.   No harm, no foul.

 

While You are right,  a little more information is required.  Car dealerships don't make a profit selling new cars.  In a good year, they will offset their sales  labor costs  and maybe pay for the lights.   Bad years not even that. Now Used sales often can cover not only their  sales  labor cost but office staff, and a significant portion of building cost including property taxes, and inventory costs.

 
Parts and service are where the owners start to put money back into their pockets. 
The problem is those profits usually don't appear until the business is several years old and the owners ( investors ) have several years of outlay before those profits are seen. More than a few fail to ever generate profit. So the risk is high and the rewards not certain. 
Not to mention we are speaking of costs in the 10's of millions from start up. 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
3/24/20 2:25 p.m.
dculberson said:
SVreX said:

But "fair market value" is defined as the price a willing buyer and a willing seller can agree to when neither is under duress.

And in this case, their price was higher than a willing buyer was willing to agree to - hence, it was overpriced.

...or she was not willing. Or she was under (financial) duress. 
 

That's not quite how that works. It would be true if NO ONE ever bought at that price, or if other dealers charged significantly less. 
 

Your friend is not willing (or able) to buy from dealers at their price. That doesn't make them wrong, and it makes her pretty smart for recognizing it. She's not their customer. 

barefootskater
barefootskater SuperDork
3/24/20 2:58 p.m.
frenchyd said:
SVreX said:

I'm almost a little uncomfortable with the phrase "overcharging". 

That's their price. And I think it's in line with other dealers. 

I wouldn't pay it. And I'm proud that dculberson has graciously offered to help a friend in need. 

But "fair market value" is defined as the price a willing buyer and a willing seller can agree to when neither is under duress.

Can someone else charge less?  Sure.  It's up to the buyer to determine if that is a good value or not.

In an age when anyone can get on the internet and learn anything they want, buyers should be informed.  There's no excuse to not be educated.

Its not that the vendor is "overcharging".  An informed buyer should make whatever decision they need to, and let the vendor decide what they want to sell the service for.  If the vendor wants to make sales, and needs to lower their price to make those sales, so be it.

They are not "gouging".  They are quoting their normal price (which is higher than many others would charge).

Sellers have a right to sell their services for whatever they want to.  Buyers get to choose whether to buy or not.   No harm, no foul.

 

While You are right,  a little more information is required.  Car dealerships don't make a profit selling new cars.  In a good year, they will offset their sales  labor costs  and maybe pay for the lights.   Bad years not even that. Now Used sales often can cover not only their  sales  labor cost but office staff, and a significant portion of building cost including property taxes, and inventory costs.

 
Parts and service are where the owners start to put money back into their pockets. 
The problem is those profits usually don't appear until the business is several years old and the owners ( investors ) have several years of outlay before those profits are seen. More than a few fail to ever generate profit. So the risk is high and the rewards not certain. 
Not to mention we are speaking of costs in the 10's of millions from start up. 

The dealer probably wouldn't make money on selling her a new car. They would make money on all the warranty and service contracts that usually go into those deals. And they'd make a killing when they cheaply fixed her current car and sold that. 

docwyte
docwyte UberDork
3/24/20 5:39 p.m.

I consider that over charging.  Just like when the plumber came to my house and tried to charge me 3 times as much for the water heater as what Home Depot charges.  You're in the business, you get the parts for wholesale. Your profit margin is the difference between that and retail cost, maybe a bit more.  300% more?  Nope, that's you being a jerk.

How'd you like it if I charged $5000 for a crown?  What would your reaction be then?

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
3/24/20 6:13 p.m.

In reply to docwyte :

Easy- I'd find another dentist!  No harm, no foul. 
 

BTW, almost no plumber these days gets wholesale pricing, and when they do, the discount is 2-5%. There is no gap between wholesale and retail pricing any more for small contractors. 
 

But your point is well taken. 

TopNoodles
TopNoodles Reader
3/24/20 6:15 p.m.

This discussion really needs another data point. Specifically, what are other Honda dealerships charging for the same repair? What about independent mechanics? It's great when you can DIY a repair and save money but it's not an apples to apples comparison. I remember changing my fuel pump and the official repair requires dropping the tank. I did it in one hour with the tank attached. Difference from the book procedure and mine was one zip tie.

spitfirebill
spitfirebill MegaDork
3/24/20 6:32 p.m.

In reply to docwyte :

My former office partner at work had a good friend that manufactured crowns for dentists.   The friend said the dentist would piss and moan and refuse to let them increase their price.  Then would charge the dental patient a huge increase for the crown they paid little for.   
 

spitfirebill
spitfirebill MegaDork
3/24/20 6:37 p.m.
einy said:

I guess it all comes down to “buyer beware”.  At least the person with the Fit got a quote first before the repair was made, and then was in a spot to have to pay three arms and two legs for the job. 

and some dealers will tell customers "you can't leave in that car.  It's not safe".   Trying to put the pressure on the customer, which typically a female.  

einy
einy HalfDork
3/24/20 7:59 p.m.
spitfirebill said:
einy said:

I guess it all comes down to “buyer beware”.  At least the person with the Fit got a quote first before the repair was made, and then was in a spot to have to pay three arms and two legs for the job. 

and some dealers will tell customers "you can't leave in that car.  It's not safe".   Trying to put the pressure on the customer, which typically a female.  

I hear you ... and agree.  

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