Do Hyundais and Kias need to be insured?

Progressive and State Farm, two of America’s largest auto insurers, are refusing to write policies in certain cities for some older Hyundai and Kia models that have been deemed too easy to steal, according to one of the insurance companies and media reports.

Several reports say the companies have stopped offering insurance on these vehicles in cities that include Denver, Colorado and St. Louis, Missouri. 

Some 2015 through 2019 Hyundai and Kia models are roughly twice as likely to be stolen as other vehicles of similar age, because many of them lack some of the basic auto theft prevention technology included in most other vehicles in those years, according to the HLDI.

Immobilizers were standard equipment on 96% of vehicles sold for the 2015-2019 model years, according the HLDI, but only 26% of Hyundais and Kias had them at that time. Vehicles that have push-button start systems, rather than relying on metal keys that must be inserted and turned, have immobilizers, but not all models with turn-key ignitions do.

Hyundai said it is providing free steering wheel locks to some police departments around the country to give local residents who have easily stolen Hyundai models.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/27/business/progressive-state-farm-hyundai-kia/index.html

I'm guessing you still have to buy liability insurance to cover if you hit someone, but they're not offering comprehensive that covers theft.

it's the job of corporations--including insurance companies--to make money.  It's the job of government to aggressively pursue, prosecute, and punish wrongdoers, including car thieves.  Guess who isn't doing their job?  Somehow I have a feeling, as inexplicable and wrongheaded as it may be, that some of you are going to be making the insurers the bad guys here.

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

Is it the same people that require you to purchase a product to be able to use your car? 

This happened with Hondas and Quebec last century. They were being stolen in massive numbers because of high value parts and easy access. So they became difficult to insure. I believe the same thing is happening with RHD JDM imports in Canada due to high claims rates.

Note that while you're required to have insurance, not all companies are required to insure all vehicles. My insurance company, for example, normally won't insure salvage title vehicles. Hagerty won't touch an old Land Rover because it's a 4WD*

* this was my experience in 2002 or so, it has been pointed out that this is not currently true

Keith Tanner said:

Hagerty won't touch an old Land Rover because it's a 4WD. 

Are you sure that was the reason? They insured my '78 FJ40.

They wouldn't when I tried, maybe it's changed in the past 15 years. The reason given was specifically because it was an off-road vehicle, and not because it was used off-road. I haven't asked since.

You would think they would still insure them, the price would just reflect the additional risk.  Twice as likely to be stolen = double the cost for theft coverage?  But not really double, because their resale sucks 

I dont think my Soul has an immobilizer.  But I suspect the 6spd manual is a decent deterrent.  And the fact that its, you know, a Kia Soul.  

The interesting thing is that 90% of the other vehicles I've owned didn't have immobilizers either.

Slippery said:

 

Are you sure that was the reason? They insured my '78 FJ40.

Yeah I have had 6-7 offroaders insured at a time with Hagerty, never had any issues.   Though this year I am moving everything to Grundy - significantly cheaper. 

My email records only go back to 2008, and I know it was closer to 2002 when I asked - I probably tried to get it on at the same time I added my Cadillac. Whatever, the point stands.  There are vehicles Hagerty won't insure :) It used to be Miatas (or not without a struggle) and they had absolutely no problem with the 1990 Miata earlier this year.

Keith Tanner said:

Hagerty won't touch an old Land Rover because it's a 4WD. 

False. Not only did Hagerty insure my P38 Range Rover, they also insured my OJ Bronco and have the insurance on my Cayenne. We are in different states though. 

Javelin said:

Keith Tanner said:

Hagerty won't touch an old Land Rover because it's a 4WD. 

False. Not only did Hagerty insure my P38 Range Rover, they also insured my OJ Bronco and have the insurance on my Cayenne. We are in different states though. 

Maybe they just didn't like Keith?

bobzilla said:

Javelin said:

Keith Tanner said:

Hagerty won't touch an old Land Rover because it's a 4WD. 

False. Not only did Hagerty insure my P38 Range Rover, they also insured my OJ Bronco and have the insurance on my Cayenne. We are in different states though. 

Maybe they just didn't like Keith?

WHAT? Who doesn't like Keith?

ProDarwin said:

I dont think my Soul has an immobilizer. 

Soul Immobilizer has to be a metal band name right?

Keith Tanner said:

My email records only go back to 2008, and I know it was closer to 2002 when I asked - I probably tried to get it on at the same time I added my Cadillac. Whatever, the point stands.  There are vehicles Hagerty won't insure :) It used to be Miatas (or not without a struggle) and they had absolutely no problem with the 1990 Miata earlier this year.

They also told me that in California they will not insure anything unless it is stored in a locked garage.

The locked garage is pretty typical. The one that boggles my mind is that as recently as 2018 hagerty wasn't much cheaper than my regular policy through eerie for my 97 cobra. Very cheap for my bugeye sprite though.

1988RedT2 said:

it's the job of corporations--including insurance companies--to make money.  It's the job of government to aggressively pursue, prosecute, and punish wrongdoers, including car thieves.  Guess who isn't doing their job?  Somehow I have a feeling, as inexplicable and wrongheaded as it may be, that some of you are going to be making the insurers the bad guys here.

While I agree, I also know that insurance companies tend to be completely beholden to actuarial tables with little on-the-ground experience.  To them, if it's a statistic, it's just hard fact.  Kind of like with the old crime reporting methods, Bel Air CA had a higher crime rate than East LA so Bel Air got way more funding for police.  What they weren't accounting for was that "crime" in Bel Air was a hundred old rich people every month calling the police because a suspicious man in a hoodie was walking on the street, and crime in East LA could be a drive-by with a dead gang member on the street and people just step over them without calling law enforcement.  That's exaggerated, but having lived in East LA, not far from the truth.  The point is, they based the money on statistics alone without ever asking the questions.  It makes me wonder if there are other factors for Hyundais and Kias being stolen more often that has nothing to do with Hyundai or Kia.

When I lived in CA and had Mercury insurance, a van had to be a passenger van WITH rear seats AND rear side windows to insure it as a personal vehicle.  If it was a cargo van, it had to be commercial insurance.  I found it to be pretty dumb that the cargo van I wanted to turn into a camper had to be commercial, but a 15 passenger van could be a personal vehicle.  I guess it's ok to inexpensively insure a van where 15 people go to the hospital or die after a wreck, but the one guy in a $5000 E250 with two seats that spends most of its life parked by a picnic table?  Sorry, no windows.  Pay up.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Frankly, California is home to so much lunacy, I'm not sure that situation is applicable to the real world.

1988RedT2 said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Frankly, California is home to so much lunacy, I'm not sure that situation is applicable to the real world.

You speak much truth.

I presume its really hard to get theft insurance on every vehicle built with a GM tilt column from 1969 til the early 90's.  I used to be able to reel off the part numbers needed to replace the bits and pieces that every punk in the universe knew to break when he needed a ride.

My daughter lived in Manitoba a decade or so ago, and she was fine there with a 242 Volvo, because you are not stealing that with a screwdriver.  I then got her a 2k Neon that didn't have a chipped key, and they made her install a system that they provided, but didn't pay for.

There's a lot on the background on the Hyundai Kia thing. There's a method to steal them that was popularized on TikTok that was easy and fast enough that high schoolers can do it and all they need in in the car and a USB cable. This has lead to it becoming popular with misbehaving youths to steal them and joyride.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/police-fight-tiktoks-viral-kia-challenge-with-low-tech-solution-to-high-tech-glitch/4040814/

Hyundai Kia hasn't really stepped up very well to provide a fix. So, yeah, I understand if the insurance companies don't want to insure a car with an fast, easy, well documented, and widely distributed vector of theft.

Google Kia boys 

This is also, if police engage in a car chase, it increases hazard to the public. So, it's a rock and a hard place.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

 

When I lived in CA and had Mercury insurance, a van had to be a passenger van WITH rear seats AND rear side windows to insure it as a personal vehicle.  If it was a cargo van, it had to be commercial insurance.  I found it to be pretty dumb that the cargo van I wanted to turn into a camper had to be commercial, but a 15 passenger van could be a personal vehicle.  I guess it's ok to inexpensively insure a van where 15 people go to the hospital or die after a wreck, but the one guy in a $5000 E250 with two seats that spends most of its life parked by a picnic table?  Sorry, no windows.  Pay up.

You can make any cargo vehicle passenger in CA, by showing up with a "modification."  For example, all my Tacomas are plated as commercial (that is how CA plates them). This allows me or my employees to use any yellow loading zone The plate number is also a different order than passenger plates, so they can be identified easily.  Commercial vehicles are insured at a higher rate AND registered at a higher rate. 

The work around? I put a camper on my Taco truck - I take it to the DMV - bam, it is now a passenger vehicle.  This "conversion" has saved me thousands of dollars over the years in insurance and registration costs. 

Not talking to you specificially, Curtis, as I know you have lots of CA experience, but in general (I am no CA fan), people who don't live here are always "OMG crap rules, no fun being car enthusiast."

The irony, is, even though we have all these rules, we are the premier site of car culture in the US, and always pushing the boundaries. So are the rules stringent?  Yes! But we are the best at breaking all these rules and finding the loopholes. 

-Remember all the hoopla with emission testers on onramps and all the "omg world is falling, we can't have exhaust modifications in CA" posts?  Nothing has changed. All the people running catless, doing the same thing. Under handed emission tests are a real thing, no amount of dyno, blah blah, has stopped the engine mods, illegal RHD cars, motor swaps, tunes, nothing.  AQMD/CA govt doesn't have the resources to enforce it.  

-Remember when CA made a 800 number, so you can tattle on your neighbors with OR/MT plates who were tax dodgers? The number of OR/SD/MT plates are just rising with no enforcement. 

When there is $$ (enthusiasts) - there is always a way around every single rule....

Public - always a step ahead of the government. 

In reply to Apexcarver :

That video sure clears some stuff up.  The USB part is pretty crazy.  I do know that other cars are equally easy to steal, just makes me wonder if the insurance is responding to actual theft numbers or if they're responding to what makes the news.

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

Yeah, CA had some hoops for sure.  If you were an enthusiast and knew the system and how to modify cars, it was cake.  Just a bunch of painful red tape.

The way a lot of us got around it was just having two engines and/or two tunes for the ECM.  One of the guys in the LA Impala SS chapter had a 500 hp LT1 in his SS.  Every two years he would swap back to the factory LT1, install the factory tune, take it for a smog check, then swap back to the 500hp assembly and tune.  After about 10 years of owning the car he had it down to a two-day thing.

A Civic guy I knew had a turbo with two downpipes;  one bypassed the turbo into the cat like factory.  At the smog test he just pretended to be a poser who put a dummy turbo under his hood to look cool.  After the test it took him 5 minutes to reconnect the turbo and load his other tune.

I didn't find CA to be that bad actually.  Just lots of red tape and effort.