Do I want a Caddy ATS?

What do I want?

1) An economical car (no more than $20K, 30ish hwy mpg), that's not an "economy car".
2) Can fit two younger children (we have my wife's wagon for family trips), but will likely never need an adult to fit in rear seat... (there goes my idea of a C6 Corvette DD.)
3) Reasonable highway comfort and reliability. I drive 35-40K/year, lots of interstate, and have grown to enjoy Bluetooth/XM/heated seats, etc.
4) Manual Trans. I want it to not suck to drive, and I enjoy having something slightly unique in a sea of Camry's, CUV's, and leased 3-series. Most of my cars end up with a set of drop springs and a summer wheel/tire setup.
5) <5 years old / reliable / presentable. I need to be able to rack up 100K more miles (prefer to start under 50K) over the next 2-3 years with reasonable certainty, and I'd like it to look like a "newish" car. I have a suit/tie job and need something "presentable", though I'm not of the type that desires a badge or flashy car to impress people.
6) This will never see a track or auto-X. I have my modified mk2 Golf for that.

I can find a RWD, 2.0T, 6-speed manual ATS with <50K miles for <$20K all day long.

Quick Example: https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/cto/5418433330.html

Plus they look good with a little drop and sportier wheels. This one is too low, but it gets the point across.

Is there a better mousetrap at the sub $20K price point?

Given your parameters, that's a damn fine mousetrap! I'm going to go kill an hour or so on Autotempest now.

I am interested in these cars.

I work for GM. Be warned these are electrical nightmares. Lots of issues with the Cue systems (which is a frustrating system when it's working right) and connectivity and modules. Cadillac reliability is a joke.

I had one that came in with a gauge cluster at 1,500 miles that was only half-lit. Ordered a new one per GM TAC's advise, discovered they were on back order. 2 weeks later in shows up, install it, go to program it and even though I programmed it to a T, it junked the new cluster. Call GM, they have no clue. Proceed to burn through 2 more cluster, GM E-Tech came and looked at it and had no clue. Finally, TAC had me program the cluster and skip several parts of the procedure, which made it work for reasons that GM still doesn't understand.

Had to learn a new "key" the other day on one, it uses a pushbutton start. There is a procedure using the PC that takes about 40 minutes or there is a "fast learn" you can do if you have an existing learned key. Every attempt to do the fast learn would lock the vehicle up so that you couldn't power it up or start it or do anything. I would have to disconnect the battery just to get it so I could do anything with the vehicle. 40 minute learn it was

There's a recall for reprogramming the Airbag Sensing Diagnostic Module to improve crash response. Fairly frequently when you reprogram them, the SDM will throw an error code and not program correctly and then it has to be replaced. GM isn't sure why.

Also I have driven all the ATS variants short of the V and don't find them that engaging to drive either. And not sure if it's a concern for you, but they are absolutely worthless in the snow. As in, let off the brake, don't touch the gas and they just sit there spinning the rear tires and refuse to move.

NickD wrote: Be warned these are electrical nightmares. Lots of issues with the Cue systems (which is a frustrating system when it's working right) and connectivity and modules. Cadillac reliability is a joke.

...and here I was thinking it'd be the smart choice over some overly complex German choice.

NickD wrote: And not sure if it's a concern for you, but they are absolutely worthless in the snow. As in, let off the brake, don't touch the gas and they just sit there spinning the rear tires and refuse to move.

Certainly a consideration. I do live in Michigan. That said, I've always driven on proper dedicated snow tires in the winter on main/plowed roads and never had an issue.

xflowgolf wrote:

NickD wrote: Be warned these are electrical nightmares. Lots of issues with the Cue systems (which is a frustrating system when it's working right) and connectivity and modules. Cadillac reliability is a joke.

...and here I was thinking it'd be the smart choice over some overly complex German choice.

NickD wrote: And not sure if it's a concern for you, but they are absolutely worthless in the snow. As in, let off the brake, don't touch the gas and they just sit there spinning the rear tires and refuse to move.

Certainly a consideration. I do live in Michigan. That said, I've always driven on proper dedicated snow tires in the winter on main/plowed roads and never had an issue.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sold on them, nor any of the others in the shop

So it seems the requirements are:
American
Manual trans
Engaging to drive
Room for kids

The 4cyl version of the Ford Fusion was offered with a manual trans.
I think you will find a Focus ST could be the answer.

Back to the Fusion.
For all the years of the Fusion, you could get a 4cyl and manual trans and the best part is that you could even get this combination with the highest trim level. That means you could get leather and climate control and a manual trans. The same is offered on the Mercury Milan also.

In the current version of the Fusion, that 4 cyl became the 1.6L ecoboost paired with a 6 speed manual. This is a rare combination but if you find one on a used car lot, it will be a slow seller and I would think you can get it for a low price. I think 2015 was the last year you could buy this combination and there is now no manual offered in the Fusion.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/10/barks-bites-the-car-you-want-to-buy-used-in-three-years-and-the-man-who-had-the-courage-to-buy-it-new/

Sample:
2014 w/ 25k asking $14,750
EPA 25/37
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=49422&endYear=2017&modelCode1=FUSION&showcaseOwnerId=82352&startYear=1981&makeCode1=FORD&firstRecord=0&transmissionCode=MAN&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=100&showcaseListingId=0&mmt=%5BFORD%5BFUSION%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=415947360&Log=0

2013 w/38k asking $14.9K
http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/658115977/overview/

I did not know a Fusion could be had with a manual... Now I think I may want one.

Always offered with a 2.3L and 5 speed manual ala Mazda6.
With the redesign, that became a 1.6L ecoboost and 6 speed manual.

Mercury Milan versions too:

JohnRW1621 wrote: So it seems the requirements are: American Manual trans Engaging to drive Room for kids The 4cyl version of the Ford Fusion was offered with a manual trans. I think you will find a Focus ST could be the answer. Back to the Fusion. For all the years of the Fusion, you could get a 4cyl and manual trans and the best part is that you could even get this combination with the highest trim level. That means you could get leather and climate control and a manual trans. The same is offered on the Mercury Milan also. In the current version of the Fusion, that 4 cyl became the 1.6L ecoboost paired with a 6 speed manual. This is a rare combination but if you find one on a used car lot, it will be a slow seller and I would think you can get it for a low price. I think 2015 was the last year you could buy this combination and there is now no manual offered in the Fusion.

Yup, seen some of these. They're pretty cool. Best part is, you get those baby Aston Martin looks. I keep hoping for a Fusion SVT/ST/SHO/whatever with either the Focus ST engine or the SHO Taurus engine.

JohnRW1621 wrote: So it seems the requirements are: American

Not necessarily. I've almost exclusively owned VW/Audi products for the last 15 years. It's more that the German offerings don't hit my parameters, and I'm willing to look at more options. The current Audi A3/S3 didn't debut until 2015, and they're auto-only (boo), and much harder to find under $20K. The small Benz is auto-only as well. Newish BMW's scare me (perhaps my fear is unfounded), and also seem to be much pricier. There may be some Japanese offerings I'm overlooking, and I'm certainly not opposed to Domestics now that they've stepped their game up.

JohnRW1621 wrote: The 4cyl version of the Ford Fusion was offered with a manual trans. I think you will find a Focus ST could be the answer. Back to the Fusion. For all the years of the Fusion, you could get a 4cyl and manual trans and the best part is that you could even get this combination with the highest trim level. That means you could get leather and climate control and a manual trans. The same is offered on the Mercury Milan also. In the current version of the Fusion, that 4 cyl became the 1.6L ecoboost paired with a 6 speed manual. This is a rare combination but if you find one on a used car lot, it will be a slow seller and I would think you can get it for a low price. I think 2015 was the last year you could buy this combination and there is now no manual offered in the Fusion. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/10/barks-bites-the-car-you-want-to-buy-used-in-three-years-and-the-man-who-had-the-courage-to-buy-it-new/

Interesting. That is surprisingly cheap. I'd definitely want one of the current body style, though I'm not sure if it'd hit the "fun to drive" quotient sufficiently. I certainly wouldn't rule it out.

As to the Focus ST, I have owned many hot hatch GTI's, and thought it could be the answer, but I feel like it's a bit boy racerish in styling, and I'm not sold on the interior refinement. Plus I already have the Golf in the garage for fun hatchback sporty car activities.

Buick Regal 2.0t manual.
Infiniti G37 manual.

I plugged your parameters into Autotrader and found a Lexus IS250 and a VW Passat CC in your price range.

EDIT: Does it have to be current body-style? I did run across a BMW 128 in your range. Here's the IS: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2017&zip=23060&listingType=used&listingTypes=used%2Ccertified&mpgRanges=40-MPG%2C31-40MPG%2C21-30MPG&transmissionCode=MAN&maxPrice=20000&transmissionCodes=MAN&showcaseListingId=411469348&vehicleStyleCodes=HATCH%2CLUXURY%2CSEDAN%2CWAGON&startYear=2010&showcaseOwnerId=66684025&firstRecord=0&searchRadius=200&listingId=408451982&Log=0

Passat CC: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2017&zip=23060&listingType=used&listingTypes=used%2Ccertified&mpgRanges=40-MPG%2C31-40MPG%2C21-30MPG&transmissionCode=MAN&maxPrice=20000&transmissionCodes=MAN&showcaseListingId=411469348&vehicleStyleCodes=HATCH%2CLUXURY%2CSEDAN%2CWAGON&startYear=2010&showcaseOwnerId=66684025&firstRecord=75&searchRadius=200&listingId=418836468&Log=0

128: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2017&zip=23060&listingType=used&listingTypes=used%2Ccertified&mpgRanges=40-MPG%2C31-40MPG%2C21-30MPG&transmissionCode=MAN&maxPrice=20000&transmissionCodes=MAN&showcaseListingId=411469348&vehicleStyleCodes=HATCH%2CLUXURY%2CSEDAN%2CWAGON&startYear=2010&showcaseOwnerId=66684025&firstRecord=100&searchRadius=200&listingId=421088422&Log=0

Second EDIT: maybe a Volvo C30? http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2017&zip=23060&listingType=used&listingTypes=used%2Ccertified&mpgRanges=40-MPG%2C31-40MPG%2C21-30MPG&transmissionCode=MAN&maxPrice=20000&transmissionCodes=MAN&showcaseListingId=411469348&vehicleStyleCodes=HATCH%2CLUXURY%2CSEDAN%2CWAGON&startYear=2010&showcaseOwnerId=66684025&firstRecord=150&searchRadius=200&listingId=398564951&Log=0

Regal GS manual? They are a total Q-ship! Handsome looks, a stout 276hp 2.0L Turbo engine, the much-lauded HiPer Strut suspension. Brembo brakes and a shockingly good shifter. They look best in black or pearl white. These are a GM car that didn't get near enough credit for how good they were.

My vote is infinity G37.

quick Googles tell me G37 is a 3.7 6-cylinder that drinks premium and is only rated at 25mpg highway.

That's a bit lower than I'm willing to go.

(coming out of a 40MPG TDI fwiw)

NickD wrote: Regal GS manual? They are a total Q-ship! Handsome looks, a stout 276hp 2.0L Turbo engine, the much-lauded HiPer Strut suspension. Brembo brakes and a shockingly good shifter. They look best in black or pearl white. These are a GM car that didn't get near enough credit for how good they were.

Surprised you like this when you dislike the ATS so much, and the same manufacturer is bolting them together.

Isn't it the same engine as well? both have Brembos, and manual trans.

I do like the Regal GS, but I'd have thought the Alpha platform would be the favored drivers car.

xflowgolf wrote:

NickD wrote: Regal GS manual? They are a total Q-ship! Handsome looks, a stout 276hp 2.0L Turbo engine, the much-lauded HiPer Strut suspension. Brembo brakes and a shockingly good shifter. They look best in black or pearl white. These are a GM car that didn't get near enough credit for how good they were.

Surprised you like this when you dislike the ATS so much, and the same manufacturer is bolting them together. Isn't it the same engine as well? both have Brembos, and manual trans. I do like the Regal GS, but I'd have thought the Alpha platform would be the favored drivers car.

The Regal tends to be much, much, much less troublesome than any Cadillac. Engine is similar but turned 90*. I don't know, I just had much more fun in one of these than the ATS when driving them. The turbo push in the Regal is hilarious.

NickD wrote: Regal GS manual? They are a total Q-ship! Handsome looks, a stout 276hp 2.0L Turbo engine, the much-lauded HiPer Strut suspension. Brembo brakes and a shockingly good shifter. They look best in black or pearl white. These are a GM car that didn't get near enough credit for how good they were.

These are also interesting vehicles.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote:

NickD wrote: Regal GS manual? They are a total Q-ship! Handsome looks, a stout 276hp 2.0L Turbo engine, the much-lauded HiPer Strut suspension. Brembo brakes and a shockingly good shifter. They look best in black or pearl white. These are a GM car that didn't get near enough credit for how good they were.

These are also interesting vehicles.

Criminally ignored too.

The Buick is comfy and should hit your requirements.

Plus, you can leave the right indicator on indefinitely, and no one will care.

Appleseed wrote: Plus, you can leave the right indicator on indefinitely, and no one will care.

Bonus points if you get the right top:

Another vote for the Regal. My friend has one and I wish I could have come up with the money to get my own. For what it's worth when I bought my Verano several people told me the Buicks were less troublesome than the ATS.