1 ... 3 4 5
mtn
mtn MegaDork
10/16/23 4:16 p.m.
Toyman! said:

In reply to Indy - Guy :

You gas station analogy doesn't work. That is a transaction between a buyer and a seller. 

Is the person who leases the property to the gas station also responsible? That closer to Ebay's relationship between the buyer and seller. 

I don't agree with that. I'd say an Auctioneer is more of an agent facilitating a sale between two parties, and the contract definitely involves eBay directly. Since in most places in the US Auctioneers need to be licensed by the state, I'd be surprised if they were allowed to sell illegal goods without penalty, and I'd be surprised if ignorance to the legality is relevant. 

I would also assume that the difference between auctioneer/auction website and a marketplace is a moot point, they're one and the same from eBay's perspective. 

Indy - Guy
Indy - Guy UltimaDork
10/16/23 4:23 p.m.

In reply to Toyman! :

Thanks. I've been on eBay since 2002 mostly as a buyer, but also as a seller.  (sold less than 50 items total over the years)  The reason I'm bringing it up, is despite being a really small player, eBay has canceled 3 of my listings in the last 2 years.  The first one was an oversight on my part (listed an airbag as shipping available)  {Apparently, you can't ship airbags safely} 

The other ones were trying to sell a Catalytic Converter off of my parts car Prius.  They stated something like: " you can't list a used catalytic converter without an EPA recertification label / test" or some type of wording.

So the platform can, and does have the ability to detect non-compliant items and close listings.

Indy - Guy
Indy - Guy UltimaDork
10/16/23 4:27 p.m.
danvan said:

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

I think this forum started out being about Billy Bob but by the looks of this we have firmly landed in Jean-Pierre's territory we used to be hot rodders and racers but it seems we are becoming Eco and noise terrorists and I for one think its a shame.

 

It's specifically the Coal Rolling Diesel Bros that are the problem.  I'm no eco or noise terrorist.

 

 

OHSCrifle
OHSCrifle GRM+ Memberand UberDork
10/16/23 8:44 p.m.
danvan said:

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

I think this forum started out being about Billy Bob but by the looks of this we have firmly landed in Jean-Pierre's territory we used to be hot rodders and racers but it seems we are becoming Eco and noise terrorists and I for one think its a shame.

There is fun to be had hot rodding and racing (with a little money or a lot of money)..

without poisoning the air we breath and the water we drink.

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo UltraDork
10/16/23 9:07 p.m.

In reply to OHSCrifle :

Completely agree - there is fun to be had in any aspect of vehicle performance regardless the platform.  The other day I tried to buy a used SCT Livewire (just a monitor, can't tune, universal OBDII) or a used Edge Insight (again, just a monitor, universal OBDII) and lo and behold, can't get them off Ebay.  Same with the SCT X4.  A perfectly credulent flash device that can be used on many platforms including gas engines, certainly not just for deleting the emissions on diesel trucks.  No auctions for HP Tuners, no auctions for EFI Live.  The auctions that do pop up are either from brand new stores that snuck through or get canceled before you can buy an item.  That's what we should all be afraid of.  Sweeping generalizations hurt us all.  

In typical sky is falling government reactionism, coal rolling isn't even a thing any more, its not cool, but now they are deciding to legislate against it in a manner that hurts all enthusiasts by restricting access to multi-platform tuning tools and eliminating the most readily available and well-vetted secondary market, not just restricting delete devices for flat brim diesel truck bros.  Remember back in the day when The Challenge was sponsored by Ebay Motors?  I wonder if all those cars were completely emissions compliant....

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
10/17/23 6:49 a.m.
93gsxturbo said:

In reply to OHSCrifle :

 

In typical sky is falling government reactionism, coal rolling isn't even a thing any more, its not cool, but now they are deciding to legislate against it

this is enforcement action for long standing laws. Not new ones.  Everyone knew they were doing illegal things and now they gave to pay the piper. 

porschenut
porschenut HalfDork
10/17/23 7:55 a.m.
93gsxturbo said:

In reply to OHSCrifle :

Completely agree - there is fun to be had in any aspect of vehicle performance regardless the platform.  The other day I tried to buy a used SCT Livewire (just a monitor, can't tune, universal OBDII) or a used Edge Insight (again, just a monitor, universal OBDII) and lo and behold, can't get them off Ebay.  Same with the SCT X4.  A perfectly credulent flash device that can be used on many platforms including gas engines, certainly not just for deleting the emissions on diesel trucks.  No auctions for HP Tuners, no auctions for EFI Live.  The auctions that do pop up are either from brand new stores that snuck through or get canceled before you can buy an item.  That's what we should all be afraid of.  Sweeping generalizations hurt us all.  

In typical sky is falling government reactionism, coal rolling isn't even a thing any more, its not cool, but now they are deciding to legislate against it in a manner that hurts all enthusiasts by restricting access to multi-platform tuning tools and eliminating the most readily available and well-vetted secondary market, not just restricting delete devices for flat brim diesel truck bros.  Remember back in the day when The Challenge was sponsored by Ebay Motors?  I wonder if all those cars were completely emissions compliant....

I looked at the SCT stuff, it all says programmer in the description of every product.  So maybe you aren't using it for that but it will tune.  If all you want is a monitor there is a scangage or numerous phone apps to do that.

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo UltraDork
10/17/23 10:42 a.m.
porschenut said:
93gsxturbo said:

In reply to OHSCrifle :

Completely agree - there is fun to be had in any aspect of vehicle performance regardless the platform.  The other day I tried to buy a used SCT Livewire (just a monitor, can't tune, universal OBDII) or a used Edge Insight (again, just a monitor, universal OBDII) and lo and behold, can't get them off Ebay.  Same with the SCT X4.  A perfectly credulent flash device that can be used on many platforms including gas engines, certainly not just for deleting the emissions on diesel trucks.  No auctions for HP Tuners, no auctions for EFI Live.  The auctions that do pop up are either from brand new stores that snuck through or get canceled before you can buy an item.  That's what we should all be afraid of.  Sweeping generalizations hurt us all.  

In typical sky is falling government reactionism, coal rolling isn't even a thing any more, its not cool, but now they are deciding to legislate against it in a manner that hurts all enthusiasts by restricting access to multi-platform tuning tools and eliminating the most readily available and well-vetted secondary market, not just restricting delete devices for flat brim diesel truck bros.  Remember back in the day when The Challenge was sponsored by Ebay Motors?  I wonder if all those cars were completely emissions compliant....

I looked at the SCT stuff, it all says programmer in the description of every product.  So maybe you aren't using it for that but it will tune.  If all you want is a monitor there is a scangage or numerous phone apps to do that.

https://sctflash.com/products/livewire-vision-performance-monitor/?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Search&utm_campaign=BC

Monitor only.

https://www.edgeproducts.com/products/in-cabin_monitors/

Monitor only.

Please do not talk of things you do not have knowlege of, it hurts the discussion.  

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
10/17/23 11:03 a.m.
93gsxturbo said:

In reply to OHSCrifle :

Completely agree - there is fun to be had in any aspect of vehicle performance regardless the platform.  The other day I tried to buy a used SCT Livewire (just a monitor, can't tune, universal OBDII) or a used Edge Insight (again, just a monitor, universal OBDII) and lo and behold, can't get them off Ebay.  Same with the SCT X4.  A perfectly credulent flash device that can be used on many platforms including gas engines, certainly not just for deleting the emissions on diesel trucks.  No auctions for HP Tuners, no auctions for EFI Live.  The auctions that do pop up are either from brand new stores that snuck through or get canceled before you can buy an item.  That's what we should all be afraid of.  Sweeping generalizations hurt us all.  

If these are legal products, then Ebay isn't being fined for them, right?.  If that is the case, then the sweeping generalizaion is being made on Ebay's part.

Or am I missing something?

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
10/17/23 11:22 a.m.
93gsxturbo said:

In reply to OHSCrifle :

Completely agree - there is fun to be had in any aspect of vehicle performance regardless the platform.  The other day I tried to buy a used SCT Livewire (just a monitor, can't tune, universal OBDII) or a used Edge Insight (again, just a monitor, universal OBDII) and lo and behold, can't get them off Ebay.  Same with the SCT X4.  A perfectly credulent flash device that can be used on many platforms including gas engines, certainly not just for deleting the emissions on diesel trucks.  No auctions for HP Tuners, no auctions for EFI Live.  The auctions that do pop up are either from brand new stores that snuck through or get canceled before you can buy an item.  That's what we should all be afraid of.  Sweeping generalizations hurt us all.  

In typical sky is falling government reactionism, coal rolling isn't even a thing any more, its not cool, but now they are deciding to legislate against it in a manner that hurts all enthusiasts by restricting access to multi-platform tuning tools and eliminating the most readily available and well-vetted secondary market, not just restricting delete devices for flat brim diesel truck bros.  Remember back in the day when The Challenge was sponsored by Ebay Motors?  I wonder if all those cars were completely emissions compliant....

Considering that people are supposed to pay attention, did you miss the part that back when eBay was sponsoring the challenge, the law was not being totally enforced?  Again, our hobby was given leeway that was destroyed by the coal rollers. 
 

The slope was defined back in the 70's. 
 

As for government reactionary, they are doing what the public demands. And I'm serious here. People complained about coal rollers, and here we are. 
 

I know it's hard to fathom, but there are actually car enthusiasts that work at the epa. Some drag race, some auto crossed. More than one challenge project was started, but to my knowledge, only one epa employee ever made it to the challenge, and that car almost had a epa sticker on it. Someone had the sense enough to say that want a good idea. 
 

Why eBay cracks down on legal items? No idea. Ask them. But it seems that they are letting forbidden items to still be sold. What's the point of a law if it's not evenly enforced?  Ask FM how fair it is they spend the money to sell legal parts when someone else isn't. 

The0retical
The0retical UberDork
10/17/23 12:20 p.m.
ProDarwin said:

Going after the sellers does indeed make more sense, however the modern world of Ebay and Amazon its incredibly tricky.  I don't know the law behind it (reading into the above, thank you for posting info), but I imagine the reasoning has a lot to do with the fact that overseas sellers seem to be able to pop up a store overnight and disappear it in a week.  How do you target a seller that is actually hundreds of sellers, but has no real presence in the US and borderline doesn't exist?

I can see how the middle ground would be: pass legislation that doesnt allow this, prevents this, or warns Ebay/Amazon/Etc. that they may be held accountable in these scenarios, instead of going right for the throat.

The INFORM act seeks to solve the popup seller issue by making the platform liable with fines for not collecting and maintaining the required data above the fairly low thresholds. It's still going to be a problem to some degree but it in theory solves a decent number of issues being discussed here as well as the popup random assortment of all capital companies on Amazon. We'll just have to see how it shakes out in time.

Section 230 provides immunity to the platform for speech hosted on and allows moderation of content a platform may not want to be associated with. Both SCOTUS and the legislative branch have made noise about revising Section 230, but both know that doing so would open a can of worms that neither wants to be responsible for.

Eliminating it would effectively kill everything from Amazon to Facebook to this forum overnight because platforms would be required to take an all-or-nothing stance to moderation to avoid liability.  Faced with having to test, check legality, and approve every product on its platform, online marketplaces would simply collapse under the volume of approvals required or be required to list everything anyone puts up for sale. Neither is a great place to be.

On the social front platforms like this forum would be required to approve each post after checking for illegal content, and if any slips through, they'd be liable. Alternatively, they could just allow everything, but someone would post something objectionable eventually, and then the post would be associated with the GRM brand. So, the correct thing to do in that situation is simply shut down the forum.

Ebay seems to be doing at least something to moderate the sale of these defeat devices but holding them liable because they have deep pockets and weren't 100% perfect is problematic for the reasons enumerated above.

Realistically, there's no way out of the situation without a middle ground like 230 remaining in place unless we're willing to go back to Web 1.0, which I can assure you will not happen.

I'm not completely against putting into place laws that surround Section 230, but it needs to be done in a way that solves certain issues without introducing new ones. The INFORM act, which requires sellers over 200 transactions and $5k in transaction revenue to have actual documentation, is a good first step towards that end. All would be preferable, but that creates some issues of scale if any of us just want to sell a couple hundred bucks worth of parts on FB Marketplace or Ebay.

Hoondavan
Hoondavan Dork
10/17/23 2:08 p.m.

No complaints here.  Give eBay an incentive to actively manage their marketplace....that's their job.  Manage a marketplace.  

Do I want the entire nation to become California?  No.  Should we have reasonable enforcement of reasonable regulations?  Yes.  

Going after ebay is simply the result of limited bandwidth & priority. It'd be impossible to target the 1,000s of global suppliers who probably have dozens of legal entities for the products they source from dozens of under-the-radar manufacturing sites.  

 

 

 

1 ... 3 4 5

You'll need to log in to post.

Our Preferred Partners
xTk5PGijRVk3zICaYShm7inkVUGWeZ8vUNh5esXxwJDqOawbDsgyZFqRjcvsE22x