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z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
9/17/21 10:37 a.m.
ProDarwin said:
mtn said:

I've never understood this point, honestly. What do you do in your free time now? Don't you have any hobbies? I don't have enough free time. I want to work out more, play more hockey, ref more hockey, go fishing a lot more, play a lot more golf, bike Ragbrai, cook more of my own food, play a lot more music...

Agreed.  I've never reached the end of the weekend and thought "I really want to have to go back to work"  And I enjoy my job.

I could dedicate 10x the amount of time I do now to my hobbies and it still wouldn't be enough/I would just acquire more hobbies.

100%. I have a $6k sim rig sitting next to me and hundreds in lego kits and other little building things that I haven't gotten to. I also love the NBA so the new game on the PS4 is great as well. 

I think even if I had some kind of trust fund I wouldn't have enough time. 

And that's ignoring the 5 guitars in the same room as the sim rig. I hate that I've acquired so much stuff since I bought this house. 

Johnboyjjb
Johnboyjjb HalfDork
9/17/21 10:47 a.m.

Having successfully advised 7 people into early retirement (so far)

The two non financial pieces of advise:
1) Take a month off from work with nothing planned. Zero. And see how long that lasts.

2) People are designed to work. We need to work. This does not mean we need to be employed. And this also doesn't mean that work can't be fun and fulfilling. Not "working" leads to death. Frequently the most satisfying (and potentially frustrating) work is serving others. Kids, grandkids, neighbors, and the like.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/17/21 10:53 a.m.

In reply to Johnboyjjb :

Replace "work" with "active" and I'll buy that.  But "work" does not benefit me enough relative to who I am working for, and I'm not working for someone else the rest of my life 

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
9/17/21 10:58 a.m.
Johnboyjjb said:

Having successfully advised 7 people into early retirement (so far)

The two non financial pieces of advise:
1) Take a month off from work with nothing planned. Zero. And see how long that lasts.

I can't take a single day off with nothing planned.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
9/17/21 11:00 a.m.
ProDarwin said:
mtn said:

I've never understood this point, honestly. What do you do in your free time now? Don't you have any hobbies? I don't have enough free time. I want to work out more, play more hockey, ref more hockey, go fishing a lot more, play a lot more golf, bike Ragbrai, cook more of my own food, play a lot more music...

Agreed.  I've never reached the end of the weekend and thought "I really want to have to go back to work"  And I enjoy my job.

I could dedicate 10x the amount of time I do now to my hobbies and it still wouldn't be enough/I would just acquire more hobbies.

I know DW is worried because both her father and older sister never really had hobbies and she really wonders what they do (did, in her deceased father's case) with their retirement time.

I tell her that within 2-3 years of retiring, we'll wonder how we ever had full time jobs.

It's going to be nice when I can spend 4 hours puttering around on some project (if I feel like it) and not burn up 10% of a week's free time.

 

paddygarcia
paddygarcia GRM+ Memberand Reader
9/17/21 11:05 a.m.
Johnboyjjb said:

Having successfully advised 7 people into early retirement (so far)

The two non financial pieces of advise:
1) Take a month off from work with nothing planned. Zero. And see how long that lasts.

2) People are designed to work. We need to work. This does not mean we need to be employed. And this also doesn't mean that work can't be fun and fulfilling. Not "working" leads to death. Frequently the most satisfying (and potentially frustrating) work is serving others. Kids, grandkids, neighbors, and the like.

This is excellent advice. I worked with people who made enough to retire in their 30s, most of whom went back to work although often on more of their own terms than before. I didn't hit quite the same lottery but had the opportunity to explore and the plan for early 60s (T - 5/6 years) is to start a lifestyle business that addresses a social need we see in the country where we plan to retire. I doubt we'll stop 'working' for a long time.

trigun7469
trigun7469 SuperDork
9/17/21 11:13 a.m.

In reply to jharry3 :

I have 3 kids and my wife is a stay at home wife. I choose this path.

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe PowerDork
9/17/21 12:57 p.m.

Healthcare is what keeps me from jumping and I am 40 right now. 4% rule and a cheaper place to live then San Diego and I could comfortably walk away today.  Sell the cars and really downsize and I could have done it 5 years ago. But if I make it to 48 at the office I have 30 years of service that counts towards pension and I could live on that alone as well.

401K + Pension + SS at 62 is a solid 300K a year inflation adjusted on just required disbursements never touching capital and not even counting post tax investments.  We have a guy at the office who does the numbers for us every two years. They look at my savings/investment rates and just shake their collective heads at the calculators. They give me the doom and gloom numbers not the middle of the road ones as that is what I ask for. 

Big issues, wife and my heath has been crappy for years. Not bad just crappy rolls of the genetic dice. Not sure I will even make it much past 70, which is why I want to jump, even though everybody in my immediate family has almost lied to 100.  Work is somehow keeping me busy and very fulfilled right now even though its terrible on time and stress. Its a good fight. 

JThw8
JThw8 UltimaDork
9/17/21 12:59 p.m.

I'm on course for 65 right now.  I was aiming for 60 but a big part of my plan is a 401H (healthcare retirement) I've been paying into at work.  They upped the retirement date from 60-65 if you want to collect on it now so another 5 years.  Since we recently relocated and it threw the budgets off a bit the extra 5 years will help stabilize everything for 65.   I'll still be busy, and find ways to supplement my income but I'll be able to do it on my terms.

M2Pilot
M2Pilot Dork
9/17/21 1:01 p.m.

There's a lot of interesting/useful discussion about this on Mr. Money Mustache. 

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe PowerDork
9/17/21 1:04 p.m.

Forgot to add this. 

https://firecalc.com/

Very best way I think to model retirement and investments on a Monte Carlo simulator using real market numbers. 

Good for some basic countdown info. not as indepth because does not model spending or anything just more like reverse time calcs. 

https://www.playingwithfire.co/retirementcalculator

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
9/17/21 2:00 p.m.

So this blew up.  Thank you for all the responses!  I'll try to reply to some of the concerns, and also add some more of my own details, so many comments that I don't think I can respond directly to anyone though.  This is going to be a wall of text, so I'll try to break it up as logically as possible.

Regarding having something to do, I am one of those people who cannot just sit around and do nothing, at least not for long.  I don't have enough time for the hobbies I have now, and have a ton of things I'd like to try out.  I have a suspicion money will be the limiting factor more than ideas of what to do.  Travel is a big thing, and I'll address that later.  One thing I'd like to experiment with is cultivating some desert plants, but time and space are not viable right now.  Wouldn't mind volunteering with an animal shelter/rescue on occasion, too, but that is something I don't have time for right now, and I have a couple of antisocial cats that would not be happy with me doing any fostering.  There is always the chance I could turn into a couch potato, but I doubt it.  If I get that bored, I'll go back to work to fill in some of my spare time.

Healthcare - I agree with mtn that the current path of Medicare/health insurance is unsustainable, but could still outlast the time between my retirement and Medicare eligibility.  Rough plan would be to go to my wife's insurance when I am not working, and if she and I are both not working before age 65, have to pay out of pocket on an exchange for insurance.  Not ideal, as that would likely be one of our biggest expenses, even if we don't have major health surprise.

Life expenses/savings - For our income, we live pretty modestly, both saving a pretty good chunk toward retirement.  About 30-35 % of my income goes directly to retirement funds.  About 25% of my retirement is in Roth style investments, so we should be able to play the game pretty well to minimize taxes in retirement.  We have a fairly small mortgage with about 6 years left.  Due to how long ago I bought the house, cost for our three bedroom bi-level is about the same as renting a 2 bedroom apartment.  We have a decent sized emergency fund to cover any maintenance issues.  We each also save some money each year for ourselves.  I don't have a ton of that, I have a car hobby, so I need to start picking up the pace if I fully quit at 55.  Admittedly, using the 4% rule, it'd take us until I am over 60 to be able to replace income, assuming inflation does not get too out of hand.  I'm operating more on the idea of 4% of what we actually spend, plus some extra for health insurance.

Continued work - I work remote (and did before COVID).  If I were to stay with my current company, I could easily work out of a class B RV with a 5G modem during the week, and bum around the country.  Would still be a bit limited in my travel until my wife retires, as I handle a lot of the household work.  Slowly trying to reduce the amount of that that exists.  If I were to switch to seasonal work at 50, I'd probably be picking up whatever I could that is not too rough on my body, and can cover as much of my current expenses as possible, but not actually save.  I could possibly do some consulting work for software QA, but if I'm going to do that, I'd rather stick to my current job.  I could also grab a few certifications, and sell myself as an analytics consultant.  Regardless, I do want there to be a fairly hard stop for a regular job, not having to work in my 60's and beyond.  If I could find a more "live to work" type job, maybe this would all change.

Travel - My wife and I both want to travel more.  It is one of our biggest indulgences as we have earned more income.  I'm more of a domestic road trip type, and while she enjoys them, she also has international destinations we like to go to.  Before one of our cats got too sick, we'd switch off years for planning and paying for vacations.  I figure in early retirement before we settle down, we'll probably be looking at 10-15K a year (in current dollars) of travel expense.  I also like hiking in the desert a lot, so if I live somewhere near my favorite haunts, that'll cut down on travel expenses.

Home - This is a big question mark.  Originally, we had planned on retiring to the desert west to a smallish house, and traveling at our leisure when the weather there was bad.  With the climate issues(not judging the whole man-made vs natural causes, just watching the events/trends) getting worse in recent years, that is kind of up in the air.  We may stay in SW Ohio, and just move to a ranch style house (we both want as few stairs as possible, with falls being a leading injury as people age), as even though the weather can be uncomfortable here, at least it is not likely to become unlivable in our lifetimes.  Another possibility that we are starting to consider is owning a place out west, and maybe getting a condo in the Great Lakes area for late-spring/summertime.  Would rather not have two places to pay for and take care of, though.  That could push retirement off.  We are keeping an eye on the real estate market and are in a position where if there was another real estate market crash, we could conceivably buy our retirement home and pay a management company to rent it out until we are ready to use it.

Random stuff/my mentality - My dad died at age 64.  He did manage to retire at 55, but kept very busy anyway, and still didn't manage to get to a lot of the things he wanted to do.  In general my family is long lived, but there does seem to be some prevalence of dementia, too.  My eyesight sucks and is getting worse (no specific medical problem, just bad genetics, I guess).  I don't know how long I've got, and I'd like to enjoy as much of what I have left as possible.  I do worry about money, so have been through quite a few scenarios, and try to play things conservatively.  Obviously, you can't plan for everything, but then I also think what if I just keep working and still end up having an expensive health problem.  Yeah, I'll likely still have more money, but I will have sacrificed time, and then may not be able to be comfortable in whatever retirement I end up with.


I'm not as worried about the financial aspect of retirement, as I should have that pretty well covered, but for those who have retired, knowledge of any financial surprises (good or bad) is appreciated.  Lifestyle changes and any pitfalls are the biggest thing I am curious about.

 

 

 

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/17/21 2:38 p.m.

In reply to eastsideTim :

We're looking & working toward the Class-B/remote work too & like you I'm 100% WFH. From what I'm finding it seems like you're looking at around $1200+ in hardware, plus 2 or more sims/data plans if you want reasonably reliable cellular internet. Of course high speed/high data plans aren't cheap either. 

Hopefully Starlink works out & becomes a cheaper option relatively soon. 

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy MegaDork
9/17/21 3:02 p.m.

I want to retire and work at Weathertech, which is close to my house.  

Phone rings - Me talking - conversation;

"What kind of car do you have?   Oh yeah?  Those are sweet".   

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
9/17/21 3:05 p.m.

In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :

The RV/Wireless would definitely be a higher cost, but could potentially allow me to work longer.  I think my wife and I could vacation together in a class B, but if we both tried to work in one at the same time, we'd kill each other, so during my working time, I'd be flying solo.  I'm also not willing to step up to anything bigger, as a C or A doesn't allow the flexibility (or drivability) I want.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
9/17/21 3:10 p.m.

I did ignore the healthcare part. It's part of why I stay where I am, we have insane health benefits which take care of my fiancee's auto-immune meds. I think non-insurance prices are in the $5-7k per month range and we pay nothing. 

It's not that I don't like my job or coworkers, but I'd like to be in an industry I really care about.

Anyone have Sam Presti's number?

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/17/21 3:35 p.m.

In reply to eastsideTim :

Same for us. We ended up with a 26' that straddles the line between B & C. I would have preferred a 24', but in some ways this is already pretty cramped for 2 people. 

mtn
mtn MegaDork
9/17/21 3:49 p.m.
z31maniac said:



Anyone have Sam Presti's number?

Funny, I do not, but I bet I could get it with little effort. I am not a basketball fan whatsoever - at least outside of my cousin's in high school and college - which is unfortunate, because I'm 2 degrees of separation from someone who worked as a direct report to David Stern for over a decade. 

(No, sorry, this is not a close enough relation for me to actually do this with someone I only know via the internet, even though I do feel like I know you pretty well)

67LS1
67LS1 Reader
9/17/21 4:02 p.m.

I retired at 56 in 2014. I can tell you from my experience, my living/traveling/hobby expenses have gone up considerably. And that doesn't include healthcare which is only $1/month each for my wife and I through Covered California.

And keep in mind that it's been said that the first person to live to 150 years old has probably already been born. Plan on a LONG retirement.

 


 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
9/17/21 4:26 p.m.
mtn said:
z31maniac said:



Anyone have Sam Presti's number?

Funny, I do not, but I bet I could get it with little effort. I am not a basketball fan whatsoever - at least outside of my cousin's in high school and college - which is unfortunate, because I'm 2 degrees of separation from someone who worked as a direct report to David Stern for over a decade. 

(No, sorry, this is not a close enough relation for me to actually do this with someone I only know via the internet, even though I do feel like I know you pretty well)

Oh I know you're just having a little fun. I suspect with my PR degree, with no real PR experience (having done tech writing almost the entire time I've been out of college), IF I could get a get job with the Thunder........it would be entry level and I wouldn't be able to afford the pay cut. 

And yes, you and a few others here, I do feel like I know pretty well. At least as well as we can :)

docwyte
docwyte PowerDork
9/17/21 7:51 p.m.

I'm not worried about healthcare.  I'll get Tricare when I turn 60 and that'll also cover my wife.  As far as things to do, skiing, mtn biking, dual sport motorcycle touring, traveling, car projects, auto-x, track days, out of state multi day track days...

If I really get that bored I'll work a few days a week at the dental school teaching or at the VA.  Kinda doubt it though...

dculberson (Forum Supporter)
dculberson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/17/21 8:22 p.m.

Wow, it's funny how many of us on here are planning early retirement. We laid out a ten year plan in 2013 or so. We had already paid off debts and had some savings but no plan for it. When we made a plan we stuck to it and got some really good years of savings in ... then had kids. And decided to go 50% time at work so we didn't stick the kids in daycare. And decided to buy a massive house in the burbs and share it with friends. But somehow between financial discipline, busting ass at side gigs, and the stock market going crazy, we've managed to be ahead of the curve. Next year we should hit out number. At 45, and owning a very not-portable business with family, I'm unlikely to up and quit, but we're sure going to have some fun and enjoy the fruits of our labor and years of planning. 3 days a week of work is probably permanent. Some of it I can set up to do remote, but being a hands on commercial landlord means about 50% of my job is just being there. So we'll see how that works out.

We also plan to do more traveling. We've done a fair amount of it, but haven't been out of the country since having the kids, which started in 2014. They're getting big enough that it's becoming appealing again, just in time for 2020 to hit of course.$15k/year seems like a good travel budget where you can take a few small trips and at least one big one without crimping your style too much.

I plan to do more crap can racing in "retirement." So it won't break our regular funds, I've been building a sort of "racing annuity" by investing any extras from my eBay sales. It's shocking how that's built up, and I could do several Lemons races a year just from the returns at this point.

I also think parting out a car a year or something would be fun in retirement. Something to keep the play money flowing. Keep the pace of sales I have going now, it's pretty relaxed but brings in enough to make a dent.

To level with you guys, at 45 I have literally never held a real job working for someone else I've never had a job interview, the only applications I filed for jobs were when I was 15-16. By the time I hit adulthood I was doing the entrepreneur / self employment thing. (refurbishing and reselling electronics, doing on-site and carry-in computer repair, new computer sales, etc, quit all that at least as a day job when we bought the real estate) So my situation is pretty different in some ways than most. But it's not unique and it's got a lot of the same challenges.

Oh, on health care - in a self funded retirement you get to set your own income at the levels you need. Don't need the funds? Don't sell the stock. Well, if you're relatively frugal that's not a high income especially for two people. You'll most likely qualify for ACA subsidies at that point. A silver plan will be pretty dang cheap. You still have your out of pocket and deductible to meet, but given that you can tailor your income to exactly what you need it'll be OK. Max you're OOP for a few grand a year. Unless you have much grander post-retirement income plans than I think.

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy MegaDork
9/17/21 10:16 p.m.

My father-in-law retired at age 52 from General Motor's Fisher Body with 30 years of UAW service.  

He's gotten a GM pension for 34 years along with fully paid health insurance.  

He doesn't understand my company not providing a pension.  

Mr. Peabody
Mr. Peabody UltimaDork
9/18/21 6:51 a.m.

My dad retired at 50 with little money and no plan. He’d owned a big house in the burbs, a successful business at one point but he was just done with it. So he bought a small travel trailer and put it in a nice park beside the river, spending most of the year there and for a few months in winter he’d rent an inexpensive apartment or room in a small town. Until he was on full government pension he’d do a little automotive repair or find cash work in small shops.  He lived on very little, did whatever he felt like and was probably the happiest I’d ever seen him. But it’s not for everybody 

SVreX (Forum Supporter)
SVreX (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/18/21 7:03 a.m.

I just turned 60.  I'm ready.

 

I'm honestly not sure how to envision the next phase of my life.  I'm kinda struggling with it.

 

 

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