Generators?

Now that I'm near the Gulf coast and I'm a little more settled, the looming hurricane season has started to weigh in on my mind.  One of the major thoughts on my mind has been a generator.  I'd probably want to use it to run the fridge, the fans and a window unit.  When the weather is not threatening, it would be useful to (until I can build a proper garage) operate my table saw or air compressor in my unpowered shed.  I know that puts me at 2400 Watts or higher sizing.  (Both the table saw and air compressor claim 15A on a 120V line, and I figured 20A for starting.  Please let me know if that seems not enough headroom.)  We have natural gas.

I'm looking for suggestions... sizing, brands, features, etc. Any infrastructural changes I should look at to better use the generator?

Thanks!

If I was shopping for a generator right now, I would go buy a Predator 3500 inverter for $769.00.

Linky.

95% as good as Honda's version for 30% of the price. 

The one thing that Honda and Yamaha have over those 95% / 30% knockoffs is noise.  If it's located somewhere noise isn't an issue, then save the money.  But if it will be somewhere that noise will make a difference, then think carefully.

What's your budget? 

I cheaped out and bought a 6875-watt Coleman for like $600. probably over ten years ago.  It does what I need it to do, but it's noisy enough to wake the dead.  I'm "lucky" if I use it once every year or two, so count me happy with the product.

Duke said:

The one thing that Honda and Yamaha have over those 95% / 30% knockoffs is noise.  If it's located somewhere noise isn't an issue, then save the money.  But if it will be somewhere that noise will make a difference, then think carefully.

The linked to generator is in their "super quiet" line and listed as 57 decibels. It may not be as quiet as the Honda EU line (I don't know either way), but it's not your typical Coleman.

In reply to Duke :

The Honda and the Predator are both rated a 57 db. 

In reply to dculberson and Toyman01 :

Cool.  Noise was my biggest complaint about the off-brand generators when I was shopping for the club's T+S generator.  Ended up paying extra for the Honda EU.

Sounds like the second-tier brands are making strides to correct that issue.

You want manual one or an automatic backup? 

If you don't have things that are crucial (like sump pumps) then the manual ones are probably ok.

Keep in mind that during a hurricane getting gas (or propane tanks) may be an issue. 

After sitting in the dark for a week once 10 years ago, I bought a Honduh powered Black Max like 8KW unit at sams for one large.  It has worked 100%.  We have not been without power for more than about an hour since I installed it.  Also put in a whole house transfer switch for it.

We're on a slab, no sump pump.  I have lots of electronics on UPSes, but I need a bigger one for the living room.  Assuming that I update that UPS, I don't think I'll need an automatic failover.  I just need enough time on the UPSes to shut things down properly.

Thanks for the thoughts.  I'm a little green on what features I need to look at.  Still trying to figure out budget; I want to make sure that I don't start with a budget and find that it's completely inadequate to deal with the situation.  

Noise is a good thought.  I think if it's running, there will at least be a sheet of plywood's worth between myself and the generator (if I'm using it at the shed) or a brick wall (if it's connected to the house).  That also means that portability would potentially be an issue.

Fridges and a/c units require about 2-3 times their rated watts usage when starting up, so take that into account when sizing the generator. There are sites online that can help figuring out how much wattage you need.

Dr. Hess said:

After sitting in the dark for a week once 10 years ago, I bought a Honduh powered Black Max like 8KW unit at sams for one large.  It has worked 100%.  We have not been without power for more than about an hour since I installed it.  Also put in a whole house transfer switch for it.

Yes.  Do you want your power company to suddenly increase the reliability of their grid and begin supplying power to your home with eerie consistency and no outages whatsoever?

All you need to do is buy a generator that will meet your needs.  You will be amazed at how few opportunities you will have to use it.  I'm not sure how that works, but it does!

Spend the extra for an inverter style generator.  Old-school gennys make bulk power, but it's dirty power.  It also has to run at a specific RPM (3600) in order to make the required 60Hz for household power.  They therefore waste fuel.  The dirty power can also not play well with sensitive electronics.

Inverter generators use an inverter to electronically make a sine wave that is clean and gets rid of the noise.  Since they also source that inversion from D/C juice, the unit can throttle down based on load and save fuel.

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

Lol. Didn't work for us!

Last spring I put in a whole house automatic failover natural gas generator. This winter when it was -25 degrees outside, the power went out for about 8 hours. It was too cold for the generator to start (I am going to try synthetic oil and maybe a heater system for it this year). We were not the only ones with a generator that didn't start!

The funny part is the utility sent us a letter a few weeks ago about their "reliability" over the past year. They were "up" 99.90% of last year (364.6 days out of 365) and they wanted to share their great track record with their customers.

Well, of course, because when you go down for 40,000 homes in Chicago on the absolute coldest day of the year for 8 hours and freeze pipes in probably more than half of those homes, you would have a bit of a PR problem about your "reliability".

Disclaimer: I live in Chicago, and my primary concerns are water in the basement. Secondary to this are cooling and heating.

I've been thinking a lot about this lately. My uncle just had some bad flooding due to a prolonged power outage, luckily his boiler was rebuilt and saved, but the water heater and softener were toast. The well pump appears to have survived, but he's going to replace it anyways. For me, a flood of that magnitude is unlikely, but not unprecedented. With the improvements to my house since it was built 92 years ago, along with our infrastructure, I'd like to think it is impossible, but I know that would be foolish. 

I've come to the conclusion that before I go to Canada leaving my wife alone for a week, I'll be AT LEAST buying one of the Harbor Freight 2-stroke generators and an emergency pump. I'll show my wife how to use it--for her, the instructions will be easy: "Use these gas tanks, start it like this, plug this pump in to the generator, put this pump in the sump pit, and run the hose out the door down the driveway". That will be the primary concern. We can lose all the food in the fridge, we can go without AC. This is what is within our means right now, and it is the bare minimum emergency protocol if we get a 100 year flood.

Longer term, i.e. a year or so, I'll be considering either one of the Predator Inverter generators or an auto start, natural gas one like Robbie has. I think I'm going with the Predator option just because it is portable, in case my in-laws need it. I'll need THAT to run the sump pumps, fridge, and gas furnace. I'd probably throw a window-unit in in this situation. 

I've also told my brother, who  lives in North Carolina, that he should start stock-piling these things as a money maker during hurricanes. Based on what he saw last year, I figure that worst case he's sitting on them 2 years, and can sell them for 25-50% return on investment. 

The biggest inverter generator on the hammer store link was a 3500.

I have a Yamaha 4000, so it would be a downgrade in size and quality if I were to replace it.

Is there a way to clean up the power from a standard generator? 

sounds like a portable is more what your after. I have used my 5600 watt coleman a few times after storms. Used it to run 1 fridge, 1 window a/c, tv, whatever ever charging stuff, box fan. Probably didnt really come close to taxing it. Used about 4 gallons of fuel in maybe 8-10 hours if i remember right. Could top it off, go to bed at dark with a 5 gallon can and it would go past breakfast the next morning. 

They can be had pretty cheap new. 

I have a small inverter genset too. Great for portability and silence but not huge amp supply. 

I have a 8000 watt constant/12k peak genset with a big v-twin as well. Considering using it for whole house with a few breakers off but never got around to it.  Not in a huge hurry as my smaller genset covers the family needs and the bigger genset is gonna really guzzle fuel. 

Mainly just have enough gas cans BEFORE the storm hits. I have over 20 5 gallon cans. When a storm is near and its looking serious, i start to fill them up.  by the time everyone else is freaking out trying to get gas, ive been topped off. 

Also have some maintenance parts. A carb kit, fuel line, carb cleaner, extra motor oil and filter if needed. I ran my generator constantly about 4-5 days with hurricane michael and about 5-6 days with irma in the last few years. Considering a normal oil change interval on small motors is between 50 and 100hrs, the ability to do a oil change would be good. I like to be as nice as possible to my generators. 

Also with the inverter generators they do a little creative marketing. Your normal gas genset will be advertised by its constant running wattage. They usually list the inverters by their PEAK wattage. That can bite you in the butt if your planning on being near peak load. 

If I were in the market for a generator right now I'd try real hard to get a natural gas one piped to the house.

A decade ago we had an ice storm that took out power and I bought the HORRID Coleman model loud.  8500 watts and probably 100 dB.  It was godaweful loud.  And having to run out every day for another 10 gallons of gas to feed the beast was a PITA.  So quiet and low feeding effort are at the tippy top of my list.

Most of the inverters you get at the hammer store are not good hammers, I mean, don't have a pure sine wave, but a "modified sine wave."  Now, how hard that is on your electronics may be up to some debate, but it usually isn't a pure sine wave.

I have 2 HF inverters.  One I bought during said power outage 10 years ago so that I could run the fridge and charge cell phones and lights, and one I bought after, their big one at the time, to use as part of a solar backup to run at night when the generator is off.  Haven't got to installing that tertiary system yet, but I have about all the pieces besides a battery bank and a box to put them in.

Sitting around in the dark gives you plenty of time to think about how to not have that happen again.

All this talk about generators, I need to pull mine out for some R&R. We bought an 8500watt probably a decade ago to keep the pellet stove, sleep machines, and at home dialysis gear running in the event of a power outage. It hasn't been run since new. 

Power seems to be out for less time than it takes to dig out the genny. 

RevRico said:

All this talk about generators, I need to pull mine out for some R&R. We bought an 8500watt probably a decade ago to keep the pellet stove, sleep machines, and at home dialysis gear running in the event of a power outage. It hasn't been run since new. 

Power seems to be out for less time than it takes to dig out the genny. 

 

Well, as long as there's nothing mission berkeleying critical to worry about....

Duke said:

In reply to dculberson and Toyman01 :

Cool.  Noise was my biggest complaint about the off-brand generators when I was shopping for the club's T+S generator.  Ended up paying extra for the Honda EU.

Sounds like the second-tier brands are making strides to correct that issue.

Agreed, I am a Honda fan-boy when it comes to generators. I have two Honda 2000eu generators and love them. So quiet and trouble free. One of mine ran for three days at the last Lemons race. 

But the Predator 3500 is $250 cheaper than the Honda 2000 and $1250 cheaper than the 3500. There are a lot of food trucks around town running the Predators and the guys I have talked to say they are also trouble free and quiet. For the difference in price I'd have to go with the Predator. Doubly so with Harbor Freights warranty deals. They will pretty much swap it out for 4 years if you buy the extended warranty.

KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:

If I were in the market for a generator right now I'd try real hard to get a natural gas one piped to the house.

A decade ago we had an ice storm that took out power and I bought the HORRID Coleman model loud.  8500 watts and probably 100 dB.  It was godaweful loud.  And having to run out every day for another 10 gallons of gas to feed the beast was a PITA.  So quiet and low feeding effort are at the tippy top of my list.

I get that, but given how rarely I use mine, I'm glad I chose cheap and noisy over pricey and quiet.  You make the purchase, and it's just dead money collecting dust in your garage.

1988RedT2 said:

KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:

If I were in the market for a generator right now I'd try real hard to get a natural gas one piped to the house.

A decade ago we had an ice storm that took out power and I bought the HORRID Coleman model loud.  8500 watts and probably 100 dB.  It was godaweful loud.  And having to run out every day for another 10 gallons of gas to feed the beast was a PITA.  So quiet and low feeding effort are at the tippy top of my list.

I get that, but given how rarely I use mine, I'm glad I chose cheap and noisy over pricey and quiet.  You make the purchase, and it's just dead money collecting dust in your garage.

Yes, I bought my Yamaha in 2005, ran it for the first time in 2016.

Edit: this thread reminded me to go pump out the 2016 gas from the generator into my truck, pour in a couple of gallons of stabilized gas from the big box hardware store, and run it for 10 minutes.

None of my small engines have ever had ethanol in them, and about half of what was in the generator was ethanol-free, the other half was the pre stabilized stuff. The only reason I changed the fuel out was that I didn't add Stabil to the ethanol free when I bought it.

I'll be filling all of my cans in a few weeks.