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HundredDollarCar
HundredDollarCar Reader
8/6/22 11:14 a.m.

In reply to dculberson :

No reason not to do it - Heavy Duty is always better with boats.  Especially if you could envision your boat towing, or being towed by those cleats.  

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
8/6/22 11:23 a.m.
frenchyd said:

In reply to dculberson :

Ha, ha,  it's always like that, back in the 50's a lot of runabouts were saved from the scrappers simply because they were small enough to fit in the garage or somewhere. 
  On the other hand my uncles 55 foot Mahogany  cruiser with 3  Allison V12 engines went  to the scrappers because premium gasoline went  to over 35 cents a gallon on the lake.  Still in nice shape though.  

If you had triple 12 cyl Allisons in that boat I'd head your way to pick it up. ;)

shame about your dads boat. Big boats are a hard sell. Once they're old enough to be affordable by regular folk they are old enough looking that the people that can afford to operate them don't want them. You've got a nice looking boat but towing storing launching and maintaining something like that is not easy. 

HundredDollarCar
HundredDollarCar Reader
8/6/22 12:25 p.m.

In reply to dculberson :

Looking again those fittings appear to be fairleads as opposed to cleats, mounted I assume at the bow.  Their stress on their mounting hardware would be more lateral and would really work plain bolts with locknuts and no backing plates.  Devastating over time in fiberglass (less in aluminum) and prone to unseen leakage before looseness and failure.  I say backing plate.

frenchyd
frenchyd GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/6/22 2:26 p.m.

In reply to dculberson :

My F150 handles it well.   Still below towing rating.   But no trailer brakes since it's only a few blocks to the launch  they just weren't needed. I suppose easy enough to add.  
      But the real joy of a boat that size is to fill with family and friends and just cruise around.  

ClemSparks
ClemSparks UltimaDork
8/8/22 4:31 p.m.

I'm excited for your purchase of the brand new engine.  Seems like a good move with no real down side.  I go boating where being able to get on plane is necessary...so I need more than 10 hp.  But if you have lots of places to explore and enjoy with a 10 HP limit, that's a great reason to stick with that size.  Looking forward to seeing it come in and get mounted up!

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
8/8/22 5:58 p.m.

Tracking says it'll come tomorrow! I took the day off from work and will spend tonight and tomorrow getting ready for it and getting it mounted, I hope.

It's apparently really simple to convert to 20hp, as it's the same motor but with a restrictor plate and ECU change to make it 9.9hp. Not that I have any plans of course. Funny thing is 9.9hp motor + 20hp ecu is less than the 20hp version.

mtn
mtn MegaDork
8/8/22 6:13 p.m.
dculberson said:

Tracking says it'll come tomorrow! I took the day off from work and will spend tonight and tomorrow getting ready for it and getting it mounted, I hope.

It's apparently really simple to convert to 20hp, as it's the same motor but with a restrictor plate and ECU change to make it 9.9hp. Not that I have any plans of course. Funny thing is 9.9hp motor + 20hp ecu is less than the 20hp version.

You're gonna love your 20 horse engine that says it's only 9.9. 

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
8/8/22 11:27 p.m.

In reply to mtn :

I have no idea what you're talking about.

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
8/10/22 11:38 a.m.

oooh

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic GRM+ Memberand Reader
8/10/22 8:13 p.m.
mtn said:
dculberson said:

Tracking says it'll come tomorrow! I took the day off from work and will spend tonight and tomorrow getting ready for it and getting it mounted, I hope.

It's apparently really simple to convert to 20hp, as it's the same motor but with a restrictor plate and ECU change to make it 9.9hp. Not that I have any plans of course. Funny thing is 9.9hp motor + 20hp ecu is less than the 20hp version.

You're gonna love your 20 horse engine that says it's only 9.9. 

So, just to be clear... It's a restricted 20hp? Does it get 20hp worth of mileage or 9.9 worth? Good job on the boat and new motor. smiley I would do whatever it takes to convert it to the upper level.

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
8/14/22 1:25 p.m.

Finally some time to work on it today. 

got a cart built and pulled the motor and put it on the cart. Got the controls and gas tank removed and put them on the cart. Now I'm ready to start on the new motor install. 

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/14/22 3:02 p.m.

Good choice with the new motor. I've put a new $4500 motor on a thousand dollar boat. It makes a lot more sense than the other way around.

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
8/14/22 10:02 p.m.

And like that it runs:

Controls hooked up, new fuel tank, everything works well except steering. I have questions. The steering that is on there is apparently a "transom mount" system. It may just be too short but it hooks up at this crazy angle and the steering interferes with other stuff before I can get to full lock in either direction. This is what it looks like in the splash well right now:

I'm considering ordering a replacement steering system at $130 which replaces the helm rotary steering box and cable. It would be a 14' cable and mount through the tube on the motor and hook to the drag link that came with the motor. The current steering does not use the drag link and just connects the ball to the metal bracket on the front of the motor. I could probably get by with just a new cable - the current cable is 11' and is too short to go through the tube and use with the drag link setup.

I'll spend some more time poking a things but figured I'd also check here. The good news is absolutely everything else works great. I ran it for about five minutes on the muffs to get it up to temp and it's nice. It starts readily. It's not especially quiet right now since it's not in the water.

Oh, one question: the new fuel line is shorter on the motor side of things so the primer bulb ends up in the splash well instead of inside the fuel tank compartment. Is that okay? Or should the primer bulb be outside of the splash well?

I need to get the rest of the blue painted; the boat is really looking good other than that.

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
8/15/22 10:36 a.m.

I spent some time on the steering, moving the pivot ball to under the motor's steering bracket rather than on top, and it helped. Also adjusted where the transom mount clamped to the cable tube and that helped. But it's still not able to go lock to lock on the motor, and I think it might just need a longer cable. I'm hesitating on replacing just the cable as the steering box does have some play in it and appears original to the boat. Is 50 years of wear on a Teleflex steering helm enough to merit replacement?

I am right on the cusp between needing a 14' or a 15' cable. Some measuring guides result in me needing a 14', some a 15'. What would be the downside if I bought a 15' cable and it was 1' too long?

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/16/22 1:48 p.m.
VolvoHeretic said:
mtn said:
dculberson said:

Tracking says it'll come tomorrow! I took the day off from work and will spend tonight and tomorrow getting ready for it and getting it mounted, I hope.

It's apparently really simple to convert to 20hp, as it's the same motor but with a restrictor plate and ECU change to make it 9.9hp. Not that I have any plans of course. Funny thing is 9.9hp motor + 20hp ecu is less than the 20hp version.

You're gonna love your 20 horse engine that says it's only 9.9. 

So, just to be clear... It's a restricted 20hp? Does it get 20hp worth of mileage or 9.9 worth? Good job on the boat and new motor. smiley I would do whatever it takes to convert it to the upper level.

Outboards are frequently done this way.  They'll make one family of motors that are several different hp ratings.  The Evinrude he took off was available as a 9.9 or a 15 and the only difference was carbs.  Below that, OMC did a 5hp, a 6hp, and an 8hp that were all the same other than carbs.  The Merc 70 on dad's tri-hull was available as 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, and 95 hp.  In the case of the Merc, it was a combination of three different carbs and two different reed valve part numbers.

It will definitely get 9.9 mileage.  He will be able to run for DAYS on a 6 gallon tank.  I wouldn't be surprised if he gets more than double the time with that Zuki compared to the 2-stroke Evinrude.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/16/22 1:55 p.m.
dculberson said:

And like that it runs:

Controls hooked up, new fuel tank, everything works well except steering. I have questions. The steering that is on there is apparently a "transom mount" system. It may just be too short but it hooks up at this crazy angle and the steering interferes with other stuff before I can get to full lock in either direction. This is what it looks like in the splash well right now:

I'm considering ordering a replacement steering system at $130 which replaces the helm rotary steering box and cable. It would be a 14' cable and mount through the tube on the motor and hook to the drag link that came with the motor. The current steering does not use the drag link and just connects the ball to the metal bracket on the front of the motor. I could probably get by with just a new cable - the current cable is 11' and is too short to go through the tube and use with the drag link setup.

I'll spend some more time poking a things but figured I'd also check here. The good news is absolutely everything else works great. I ran it for about five minutes on the muffs to get it up to temp and it's nice. It starts readily. It's not especially quiet right now since it's not in the water.

Oh, one question: the new fuel line is shorter on the motor side of things so the primer bulb ends up in the splash well instead of inside the fuel tank compartment. Is that okay? Or should the primer bulb be outside of the splash well?

I need to get the rest of the blue painted; the boat is really looking good other than that.

Primer bulb in the splash well is A-ok.  Prevents having to reach under to prime.  Downside is you might have to replace it every 8 years instead of 10 from UV damage.

Excellent choice on the Suzuki.  Zuki and Yamaha are about the only outboards I would buy new.

mtn
mtn MegaDork
8/16/22 2:01 p.m.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
VolvoHeretic said:
mtn said:
dculberson said:

Tracking says it'll come tomorrow! I took the day off from work and will spend tonight and tomorrow getting ready for it and getting it mounted, I hope.

It's apparently really simple to convert to 20hp, as it's the same motor but with a restrictor plate and ECU change to make it 9.9hp. Not that I have any plans of course. Funny thing is 9.9hp motor + 20hp ecu is less than the 20hp version.

You're gonna love your 20 horse engine that says it's only 9.9. 

So, just to be clear... It's a restricted 20hp? Does it get 20hp worth of mileage or 9.9 worth? Good job on the boat and new motor. smiley I would do whatever it takes to convert it to the upper level.

Outboards are frequently done this way.  They'll make one family of motors that are several different hp ratings.  The Evinrude he took off was available as a 9.9 or a 15 and the only difference was carbs.  Below that, OMC did a 5hp, a 6hp, and an 8hp that were all the same other than carbs.  The Merc 70 on dad's tri-hull was available as 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, and 95 hp.  In the case of the Merc, it was a combination of three different carbs and two different reed valve part numbers.

It will definitely get 9.9 mileage.  He will be able to run for DAYS on a 6 gallon tank.  I wouldn't be surprised if he gets more than double the time with that Zuki compared to the 2-stroke Evinrude.

Similarly, we had a 70 Merc on a boat that was rated for 55 max. The reason it was rated for 55 was the transom was built to support that weight, not any power restrictions. But the 70 horse was the same as either the 40 or 50, the only difference was a slightly larger bore and electric trim. Same weight, except for the trim motor.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/16/22 4:13 p.m.

This also makes me wonder if there is now a 9.9 for sale in OH.

Hint hint

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
8/16/22 5:00 p.m.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

This also makes me wonder if there is now a 9.9 for sale in OH.

Hint hint

I'm planning on it sitting on the cart until I decide for sure on whether I'm keeping the Starcraft long term. If I don't, it'll go back on the Starcraft to be sold as a package.

UNLESS! You or someone really wants it, in which case it can be sold, but probably not for a screaming bargain since I just spent $3500 after tax to replace it. ;-) Are you interested? It's a pretty universal motor, short shaft adapted to long shaft, tiller or remote steer, electric or pull start. Some cosmetic issues with the cover but it's not too bad.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/16/22 8:26 p.m.

I really don't need it.  I currently own four 9.9s, two 30s, a 6, a 3.5, and don't have boats for any of them.  9.9s are kinda like 10mm sockets for boaty guys like me.  Hard to pass one up when it's available, and you can never have too many.  Although I have too many.

If you sell it, you deserve top dollar.  Which is not me.  :)

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
8/20/22 10:05 p.m.

We just don't seem to be able to do anything but trial by fire. New motor so it's the perfect time to bring a bunch of people along right? Seven of us piled into that little boat (4 kids 3 adults) and fired it up for the first time in water. Oh my lord is it quiet when it's in the water. It's like a sewing machine. You can feel it idling in the body of the boat but you really can't hear it. I gave it the requisite idle only out of gear warmup, the in gear idle only time, then kept it below 1/3 throttle for the next period. All good. The control cables vibrate in the aluminum splashwell something fierce - only on speed changes as it passes through the resonant frequency of the cable loop or the splashwell or something. But other than that it's so much better than the old motor I don't even know where to start. Some time with Velcro cable straps and some foam or pipe insulation should cure the vibes. After a while my wife said "I love our new boat!" Because it really is like a totally different machine. She had previously given it "about 18 months" before we upgrade and she said she was rapidly recalibrating that timeline after experiencing the new motor. 
 

So yes it has worked out very well so far. We're very happy with it and it's exactly what I think we needed. We didn't get above 5 mph because we were in the 1/3 throttle break-in period but soon I'll do some top speed tests. My 7 year old kept asking me to see how fast it would go. Sorry kid! (Probably still not fast but hey better than 5mph at least!)

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/22/22 3:59 p.m.

4 strokes have firing pulses at half of a similar 2-stroke, so the pulses do tend to be more pronounced.  Still way quieter.

After going to a 4-stroke 50 on the pontoon I've noticed that some rivets are starting to buzz around 2500 rpm.  Nothing a ball peen hammer can't fix in 12 seconds.

MattGent
MattGent HalfDork
8/22/22 4:09 p.m.

 

My son got his first chance at driving the clown boat with the big engine on it.  We survived! It porpoises like crazy until you're going faster than he was comfortable.

I'd suggest fuel lines to be replaced more like 4-5yrs, especially if running e10 fuel. I exclusively use rec90 in the boats.

Also, with that Suzuki, need to religiously protect the fuel from water ingestion. Had all kinds of problems with my df30 from water getting into fuel. Complicated efi system, pumps are really sensitive to water. 

11GTCS
11GTCS Dork
8/22/22 7:50 p.m.

In reply to dculberson :

Echoing Curtis comment, every engine will have some type of resonant frequency that may get picked up by parts of the boat.  The 3 cylinder direct injected ETEC 2 stroke Evinrude on my Whaler is way quieter than the original old school 2 stroke Mercury was at all points of the throttle but will shake the hand rails on the center console at around 1,200 RPM.  Stay above or below that and it’s turbine smooth.  Congratulations on the new power, enjoy it! 

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