In this explanation I'll use the term "customer" to refer to the job-board that hired me, the middle-man, and I'll use "end client" to refer to the person that comissioned the job to the middle-man. Make sense?
Long story short. I'm a drone pilot and shot a commercial real estate job 2 weeks ago.
The customer said the images were underexposed. Ok, maybe a little. They asked for a re-shoot. I explained that I could certainly re-shoot this, but it would be 5-6 days judging by my availability and the weather. I also offered to correct the exposure in lightroom, allowing them to have the finished product in a few hours, not a week.
They said they'd contact me if the job was still available in 5-6 days. Now, this is a job board where they post jobs and pilots in the area get a notification when I job is posted. I got NO notifications. The time came and I was never contacted.
What I suspect happened was they touched up the pics themselves (or didn't touch them up at all) and gave them to the end client. Thereby avoiding paying me. I own those pics, they did not pay me for them.
How can I find out if they did this? I have searched the address on google and haven't found a listing. I don't know if this was for a standard online listing, or maybe these pics were for a presentation being put together for a buyer or investors.
Would I be able to get anything more than the money the job was originally supposed to pay? Because if that's all I can get, it's not worth it to put more time into it.
If I'm reading this correctly, you did the work, they have the photos, and they never got back to you about a reshoot in a timely manner. They owe you for the work you did for them. How about sending them the bill with a note saying something like, "Since I never heard back from you about reshooting the photos, I assume you have found the original photos to your liking. Payment is due upon receipt."
BenB (Forum Supporter) said:
If I'm reading this correctly, you did the work, they have the photos, and they never got back to you about a reshoot in a timely manner. They owe you for the work you did for them. How about sending them the bill with a note saying something like, "Since I never heard back from you about reshooting the photos, I assume you have found the original photos to your liking. Payment is due upon receipt."
This, exactly. You did the work that was contracted to you. If they have grounds for 'warranty' work to correct something, they can take that up with you after they pay for the work you did.
You already know the address of the property, so set up a Google Alert for it. Also, you can do a reverse image search with Chrome. Just open the images in a Chrome browser tab and right click. Select "Search Google for image".
As for rights, if they didn't pay for the photos then they don't own them. Image copyright is nasty stuff and quite easy for you to prove in court since you have the originals. Is there any sort of contract?
BenB (Forum Supporter) said:
If I'm reading this correctly, you did the work, they have the photos, and they never got back to you about a reshoot in a timely manner. They owe you for the work you did for them. How about sending them the bill with a note saying something like, "Since I never heard back from you about reshooting the photos, I assume you have found the original photos to your liking. Payment is due upon receipt."
Be prepared to follow up with a Small Claims demand letter.
It's certainly possible that they just want to use your video without paying you and pocket the difference. If it's for a public ad you can watch their advertising output like a hawk, and then if you find your footage in their ad, invoke the dark powers of IP law for maximum profit/damage.
If it was for private use then there's probably nothing you can do, this is why sample material is often delivered with watermarks across it until the job is paid for.
I would do exactly above, even if they don't use the photos. You did the work and delivered the product per your contracted duties.
I would send an invoice and follow with a phone call. If you aren't paid immediately, I would call the State's Attorney General (just leave a message) and send a second invoice 30 days later with a late fee of 10% along with a note that says "the State's Attorney General has been contacted concerning this and is aware of your delinquency. Please remit payment in full immediately."
If they use the photos, lawyer up hardcore and lay it on thick. Within 24 hours of the photos going up, they need to have an "immediate cease and desist" letter in their hands.
scorched berkeleying earth. I am an artist, and the rule of the world is to steal what you can and give back those who make a fuss. How much money gets stolen this way from artists and skilled labor every year? It's robbery and the only reason they continue to get away with it is because most of us don't have the balls to create a fuss over $50 or $150
Also, invest in some watermarking software. When you're done, add the watermark, submit it, and tell them they don't get the clean copy until you're paid.
Thanks for the suggestions folks.
I do have one POSSIBLE trick up my sleeve. I do have the phone number of the end client in this matter. I can do one of two things:
1 - call him and explain that I suspect he was given the images I wasn't paid for and ask that he send me a few of the images so I can determine of this has taken place
2 - call a friend of mine that is a commercial real estate agent. I'm sure he can find if this is listed anywhere, public or private and nab copies of the listing for me.
On option 1, I bet he wouldn't want to be involved with this issue and probably won't help.
In reply to DrBoost :
On option 1, if they're a reputable professional, I suspect they would have more reasons to work with you than not.
There's no reason you can't do both simultaneously though.
Have you tried simply looking up the house address via Zillow and Trulia. Those sites scour MLS sites for updated info on properties. If the house has been listed somewhere, those two sites will know.
John Welsh said:
Have you tried simply looking up the house address via Zillow and Trulia. Those sites scour MLS sites for updated info on properties. If the house has been listed somewhere, those two sites will know.
It's a 100-acre mobile home park. It's not on Zillow and the like. I did search the address, nadda.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
I would do exactly above, even if they don't use the photos. You did the work and delivered the product per your contracted duties.
I would send an invoice and follow with a phone call. If you aren't paid immediately, I would call the State's Attorney General (just leave a message) and send a second invoice 30 days later with a late fee of 10% along with a note that says "the State's Attorney General has been contacted concerning this and is aware of your delinquency. Please remit payment in full immediately."
If they use the photos, lawyer up hardcore and lay it on thick. Within 24 hours of the photos going up, they need to have an "immediate cease and desist" letter in their hands.
scorched berkeleying earth. I am an artist, and the rule of the world is to steal what you can and give back those who make a fuss. How much money gets stolen this way from artists and skilled labor every year? It's robbery and the only reason they continue to get away with it is because most of us don't have the balls to create a fuss over $50 or $150
Also, invest in some watermarking software. When you're done, add the watermark, submit it, and tell them they don't get the clean copy until you're paid.
Quoting for emphasis. Theft is theft.
Might be listed on loopnet.
In reply to Steve_Jones :
This
I wouldn't try contacting the end client. Don't skirt the issue. Regardless of whether they use the images/video inhouse, gave it to someone else or are using it in advertising, they contracted you to supply it. Your end of the bargain is done. They need to pay for it. Finding out whether the client has the images/video doesn't matter.
I'd vote to billing them correctly first before contacting the end client, then follow up with small claims court after that's ignored... I would then let the end user know what happened after it's all resolved if it still seems malicious (dealing with trailer park management companies, yes, it is totally malicious).
Imagine that you paid someone to build you an engine. It turns out later that the person lifted the pistons and didn't actually buy them. Although you're likely sympathetic and want to know so that you never have them build you another engine, you're probably not going to stop using the engine that you paid for with your own money because someone in the supply chain that got it to you sucks.
Target the people that suck.
Driven5
UltraDork
4/6/21 12:21 p.m.
WonkoTheSane (FS) said:
Imagine that you paid someone to build you an engine. It turns out later that the person lifted the pistons and didn't actually buy them. Although you're likely sympathetic and want to know so that you never have them build you another engine, you're probably not going to stop using the engine that you paid for with your own money because someone in the supply chain that got it to you sucks.
Target the people that suck.
Having it brought to your attention that you're in possession of stolen goods, and would thus also now have some liability/culpability yourself, should quickly convince you to act in support of the piston supplier being made whole by the engine builder... Even if for no more noble of a reason than to CYA.
One of the best ways to target people who suck, can be to also target the people who support them. The goal is to make supporting you instead be their least objectionable alternative. People who choose to continue to suck by association are simply more people that suck.
